Mole Traps
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Oh yes JK, we know the “crusty camp” well. In fact, we slept through one of their raves, it was the blasted police helicopter that woke us up😂 I think it was the same night the invaders arrived, all they got was a useless PC next morning.
This was Calke Abbey last week. Red Deer, they have Fallow as well. And Moles👍
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Why do the wardens think the only way to get rid of the moles is to kill them?
They could quite easily use Sonic Wave Deterrents, solar powered. These drive the moles out of the area. Not that expensive either.
The act of killing these creatures is barbaric. Hope the OP gets a satisfactory response.
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If you've got good hearing sonic devices are unpleasant.
One thing about Old Hartley and the cliffs is a rat problem which reduces cliff nesting birds. There is always a balance to be struck in these areas. Cliff erosion is also ongoing and stability is an issue.
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The problem with Humans is-they take over every habitat they want, they displace other species-label them vermin or at epidemic proportions then destroy them. Why should any creature that lives it’s short life the way evolution designed it be killed because it annoys or gets in the way of Humans🤷🏻♂️. Deer if left alone will even out due to food resources, don’t drive Animals to extinction because they don’t fit in the box we designed for them☹️
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Morning
WN, there's nowhere in this thread that states wardens were killing moles. The op said he saw a man setting traps. In my opinion that would be a contractor as all staff are not allowed to use any equipment we haven't been signed off to use. Mole traps won't be in the tool inventory! Don't tar us all with the same brush eh? Read my posts above
JK
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I wouldn't think the mole catcher just arrived on site to catch moles without expecting payment, therefore he was employed by someone to catch them. The most likely way someone at EGH would know there was a mole problem would be if the wardens informed them!
I could order a hitman to kill my wife but I would be as guilty as the hitman.
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The grass area outside the Old Hartley site (we are frequent visitors) is used by the general public for walking and parking. We went to the aid of a lady who fell over as she got out of her car in that area, if there are collapsed mole runs etc it does present a problem to the LA or other landowners. Having recently spent three weeks out of action catching my foot in a not very visible rabbit hole on a local footpath alongside a wheatfield it is something that all concerned need to keep an eye on. We have a right of way that we have to check frequently, it is quite a resonsibility even if it's just an accidental incident that occurs. So most landowners, small and large do try to keep safe access going. It doesn't always work out, sometimes there are awful incidents so bear in mind the processes involved and the responsibilities. Not everyone can see well or understand what's under their feet, or even what's looming in the distance!
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The grassed area outside the Old Hartley Site is undulating to say the least, so not easy underfoot, but in my opinion it has nothing to do with mole or rabbit holes - it's just a typical non-manicured, natural area of grass. Working for the Public Sector, with responsibility for some land and buildings I can say with confidence that on our land if someone were to fall down a mole or rabbit hole there would be no course of redress for our authority. People need to take some responsibility for their own safety and judge whether a certain footpath or area is safe for them to walk on, and within their capability, regardless as to whether they are able bodied, or have disabilities or ailments.
I believe it was an external contractor laying the traps, not the Wardens, but someone must have ordered the work.
It would be fantastic if all Wardens were like JK. If he is using his ingenuity regarding filling in rabbit holes and using soil from mole hills, rather than it being part of CAMC recommended best practice or training, he should be held up as an example of how sites should be run...enhancing the environment, working with flora and fauna...not working against it, in the pursuit of a 'picture perfect' pristine sight with bowling green type grassed areas. Well done JK!
Also, just to update you all - I have received a response from CAMC saying they will respond in 20 days as the issue needs investigating.
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Prevention can be better than cure as well. Moles don’t like daffodils, so get lots of bulbs, plant inside and out Old Hartley, and eventually it could be a win win. Pretty Spring flowers for residents and visitors, the moles will go, and then the only ones who might break a leg will be those who venture to pick the daffodils.😉
Our big park is full of Daffs, growing in all areas. No moles though, they are never evidenced.
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A few solar powered sonic devices work well on my allotment ( not much fun seeing your runner beans seeds disappear down into mole runs). I can't hear the sonic waves. There again we could always employ the Jasper Carrot method of mole eradication ( you have to be of a certain age to remember that sketch).
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I like your train of thought V👍🏻. I have always thought all the ‘anti natural world’ types would be held responsible in the next life. . .Yup I’m a dreamer😊
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The only creatures that I have deliberately killed have been trout, mackerel, flounder, eel, prawn and sea bass. I exclude bait
Probably killed some whitefly etc also.
I did despatch a cat with a single blow of an extended wheel spanner to end its suffering after I had run it over.
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I am currently reading a book about the Peasants Revolt 1381. It looks at what happened earlier in the Century for background, ie numerous bouts of The Black Death, a few other things such as the end of serfdom and the feudal system. It changed the World profoundly, having wiped out millions of those who did most of the work, along with a few more of the big decision makers as well. The parallels with what is happening at the moment are quite stark, however, human beings are now so clever, so scientifically aware that the current pandemic hasn’t had anything like the effect the Black Death did. You do tend to wonder just where Man’s efforts will lead the planet ultimately. It can only get worse to be honest for other creatures and nature. Won’t be in my lifetime, but I fear a Soylent Green world for future generations at some point.
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I believe it was an external contractor laying the traps, not the Wardens, but someone must have ordered the work.
Obviously until you have a further reply from the Club we won't know. However I suppose there is just a possibility that it might not be at the bidding of the Club? I am not sure what the status of Old Hartley is viz a viz whether the site is owned by the Club or leased. If it is leased it could be the lease holder who has ordered the work for a reason we don't yet know about? Or, of course it could equally have been ordered by the Club. Once we have the information we can all make a more informed assessment of whether the work was needed or not?
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JK
Just to put the record straight I was referring to the Opening Post's first few lines,
"I was disgusted to find out that Caravan Club Policy is to trap and kill moles.
I saw a man setting mole traps along the external and internal perimeter hedge at the entrance to Old Hartley Club Site on Sunday 19 September 2021.
I enquired if he was setting mole traps and he said yes. I asked if that was ethical and humane. He said it was better than seeing mole hills. I said 'is it really?'. He said it was Caravan Club Policy....."
As the OP was the person on the spot it was my reasonable, but maybe misguided, assumption that it was Caravan Club Policy that was being invoked. Why wouldn't the OP believe the man?
I did not "tar us all with same brush" as you state. i have always held wardens in high regard and I don't think you will find a derogatory comment anywhere that I have made about them so I resent the implied criticism.If this proves to be someone other than the wardens then I will apologise on this thread to them for my statement.
However I still stand by my comments that there are other non lethal ways to be rid of the problem.
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Who would be the first to contact the "ambulance chasers" I wonder when they broke a leg tripping over a mole run. Argue with the wardens because their grass pitch was likewise. Leave rural matters to rural people. Sorry could not hold back.
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Things have moved on since back then fish, ambulance chasers are no longer & it’s not easy to get a pay out for silly things. The law takes into account we all need to accept responsibility for our actions👍🏻. Moles etc are part of the natural world. . .They dig & they throw up soil-it’s natural.
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No need to apologise - it was inevitable😟.
It's time to let go of the 'only rural folk know about these matters' attitude, Fish.
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About 3yrs ago one of local GPs we have known for years ,said to OH ,i will not be sorry to retire as we are gettng more patients coming to the surgery with medical problems we have not got any answer to
when OH was attending the hospital clinic on Monday ,she mentioned to the consultant of the conversation she had had with our GP (he has now retired) the consultant was in agreement
She said one main theory it is possiblydown to modern lifestyles
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Of course moles have only inhabited planet earth for just over 33 million years so surely that should give them some rights not to be slaughtered by uncaring country folk.
Whenever I see mole traps I always put the boot in. At one CL the owners had set up traps outside their property boundary. Not only did I kick the traps but I told the owners. My point was don’t say you have a lot of wildlife on the cl then try and kill moles, that’s sort of hypocritical
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Tinny, don’t be fooled by the ‘us rural folk’ spin. Some have a scorched Earth policy(literally on Moors) re wildlife as in-‘if it loses us money kill it’. Some have the attitude of working with the natural world but not many I’m afraid & some hide behind the ‘sportsperson’ name as if it’s sporting to shoot, catch, trap & use Dogs to help in the killing☹️
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I'd be interested to know if Fisherman's 'leave rural matters to rural people' extends to the poisoning, trapping, shooting and killing of birds of prey by Gamekeepers?
Also, describing Old Hartley as rural is a stretch of the imagination!
Current update - spoken to Northumberland County Council Pest Control Officer - they do not trap moles, nor would they permit it on their land. If the land outside the site is their land the CAMC have placed mole traps without their consent, and effectively broken the law.
He also said you should never place mole traps where dogs could access them...many dogs are walked on that land and the CAMC land where the traps were sited.
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