MTPLM upgrade
I am about to buy a Swift Elegance 565 caravan, 2021 model. The weight plate beside the entrance door gives the MTPLM as 1701kg and I would like to uprate this to the allowed upper MTPLM of 1750kg. The dealer says this may not be necessary as there is a separate plate inside the front locker which already shows the maximum weight figure of 1750kg.
In practice, I expect the laden weight of the van when touring to be a little over 1700kg, hence the desire to uprate, but now I'm confused as to which plate would be referred to should I ever be stopped for a weight check. Appreciate any advice.
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That does sound correct if these both refer to the vehicle MTPLM. I would contact Swift to determine which plate is wrong.
A van can easily have an axle plate that is noticeably higher than the vehicle MTPLM, but do not take it as given that you can re-plate the vehicle body to match. I was under the impression that the vehicle model [not specifically your actual van] must have been tested at this higher rating at some stage.
I came across this issue when Hymer would not re-plate my van to match a far higher axle plate. They would only meet me part way as at some time my model had been tested and offered with a slightly higher MTPLM than I had.
Colin
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It is not really uprating at all. It is reversing the downrating that has been done to make the model more attractive to people with small tow vehicles or in some cases restricted licences.
The uprated value for my caravan is 1800kg, but each axle is rated at 1000kg and the wheels at far more.
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Apologies That should be:-
That does NOT sound correct......
Navigiteur,
two 1000kg axle and a 1800kg MTPLM to me sounds safe and correct as you have a 10% safety margin. Then again I do get a bee in my bonnet about the paltry and dangerously low payloads of vans that owners easily exceed.
Colin
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Thanks for comments so far. I have emailed Swift for an answer but can expect a long wait for a reply due to the current "unprecedented times".
Agree with you Navigateur, my intention is to reverse the downrating to the 'lower limit' of 1701kg and restore it to the caravan's 'upper limit' of 1750kg. Need a little more than the miserly 156kg payload allowance at the lower MTPLM.
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I was reading a review of the 'top of the range' Coachman twin axle van. MPTLM 2000Kg. Payload a paltry 160Kg. Seems pretty pathetic for a flagship model.
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The 'weight plate' by the entrance door is not an official plate at all, but a label for consumer information displaying a weight that is calculated on the basis of a formula created for marketing purposes by the NCC. The plate in the locker is the legal maximum technically permissible laden mass. The label by the door could just as well be removed without getting into conflict with the law.
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Is the twin plate thing a UK only practice or is it across Europe. I take it as being a fairly recent, ie last ten years, innovation.
My previous Eriba had a plate next to the door and none in the locker. They now have none next to the door but one in the locker.
Colin
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I have also been told by Knaus (in writing) that the data plate by the door was put there after persuasion by both the NCC and this Club on the basis that 'it would be useful' for customers - no other reason. The 'real' plate is in the gas locker. If it's any consolation, the data plate next to my van door shows the tyres pressures as being 65psi when, in reality, they should be 43psi. That little error (and I'm not the only one) has just cost Knaus a new set of tyres. Incidentally - no mention of tyre pressures on the weight plate in the gas locker.
Added to which, I have it on very good authority by someone who occasionally posts on here, that there is a weight plate on each axle which shows a maximum loading of not 1000kg per axle but 1300kg per axle - so I am more than happy with the stated 365kg payload.
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Blimey you never stop finding contradictions with caravanning, so now something new to ponder. I upgraded my twin from 1700 to 1800kg and I could have gone to 2000kg. However, my car Mass in Service is 1906kg. I upgraded mainly to accommodate my all wheel mover 60kg which would come off my payload.
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The axle will take the extra weight but what about the rest of the caravan chassis and the floor. If the vehicle has not been tested to these far higher limits is it wise to go significantly over your MTPLM?
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Further to my last comment I have subsequently been told that the additional weight plate in the gas locker is the weight plate that you can upgrade too obviously depending on your current cars Mass in service, the plate next to the door is the plate you should adhere to without the upgrade.
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At least Bailey include a couple of decals at similar price.
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Legislation (The Road Vehicles (Approval) Regulations 2020, Schedule 2, Part 2, Chapter 1, Item 18) covers the requirements relating to statutory plates and what they must display. The label by the door does not conform to these requirements.
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We upgraded our twin axle Sterling (Swift group) when we got it back in 2008, from 1815 to 1900 kg, giving us a total payload of 345 kg. This has to include pretty much everything that did not come with the van as there was no allowance for gas included in the MRO at that time.
It does however include the EHU cable, step, water uptake, supplied TV, supplied small waste water carrier, and an allowance for some fluidsThe cost back then was £50. Tyre pressures had to be increased from 39 to 45 psi if I remember correctly
This increase allowed us to fit a mover (2 wheel) and air con, a few other small extras, and a Fiamma roll out canopy without eating into the original payload. It is very easy to use that full amount!
The excellent payload is one of the main reasons we have kept this van.
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No it isn't - and I didn't say I would - just that it's reassuring that this is another example of German vans being 'over-engineered'.
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It does not look as though this regulation applies to trailer caravans though.
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Section 18 is between speedometer and seat belts, so I still don't get the connection to trailers . . . ?
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Sorry, I still do not see anything about what must be displayed on the specified plates, apart from that the vehicle identification number must be on all of them. Nothing about the mass permitted.
The bit that tells us this section applies to type O vehicles must be pages away.
I did find it amusing that a hierarchy is set of "motorcaravan, ambulance and hearse", which sums it all up for us.
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The only plate in the front locker of my Xplore 422 refers to the VIN, no weights or technical details. It also has a QR code, perhaps this contains more information. I had the caravan upgraded to 1200kg on purchase a supplied with a new plate giving the upgraded details.
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Immediately under the heading of Part 4 there is reference to Category O vehicles. Item 18 then states that the statutory plate, and that is the only one that is referred to in legislation, must comply with 76/114/EEC and that, in turn, states the following:
2. MANUFACTURER'S PLATE
2.1. A manufacturer's plate, modelled on that shown in the appendix hereto, must be firmly attached in a conspicuous and readily accessible position on a part not subject to replacement in use. It must show clearly and indelibly the following information in the order listed:
2.1.1. Name of the manufacturer.
2.1.2. EEC type-approval number [1].
This number is composed of a small letter "e" followed, in the order given, by the distinguishing number or letters of the country which granted the EEC type-approval (1 for Germany, 2 for France, 3 for Italy, 4 for the Netherlands, 6 for Belgium, 11 for the United Kingdom, 12 for Luxembourg, DK for Denmark, IRL for Ireland) and by the type-approval number corresponding to the number on the type-approval certificate for the type of vehicle. An asterisk shall be placed between the letter "e" and the distinguishing number or letters of the country which granted the EEC type-approval, and between the distinguishing number or letters and the type-approval number.
2.1.3. Vehicle identification number.
2.1.4. Maximum permitted laden weight of the vehicle.
2.1.5. Maximum permitted laden weight for the combination, where the vehicle is used for towing.
2.1.6. Maximum permitted road weight for each axle, listed in order from front to rear.
2.1.7. In the case of a semi-trailer, the maximum permitted weight on the fifth wheel king pin.
2.1.8. The requirements of 2.1.4 to 2.1.7 shall not enter into force until 12 months have elapsed from the date of adoption of the Council Directive on weights and dimensions of motor vehicles and their trailers. In the meantime, however, a Member State may require that the maximum permitted weights prescribed in its national legislation be shown on the plate of any vehicle which has entered into service in its territory.
If the technically permissible weight is higher than the maximum permitted weight, the Member State in question may request that the technically permissible weight also be stated. The weight would be set out in two columns: the maximum permitted weight on the left and the technically permissible weight on the right.
2.2 The manufacturer may give additional information below or to the side of the prescribed inscriptions, outside a clearly marked rectangle which shall enclose only the information prescribed in 2.1.1 to 2.1.8 (see the Appendix to this Annex).
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Many thanks Lutz for posting the extract from Regulations; it’s starting to make sense now. I’ve picked out the relevant parts below, with some emphasis of my own:
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2. MANUFACTURER'S PLATE
2.1. A manufacturer's plate, modelled on that shown in the appendix hereto, must be firmly attached in a conspicuous and readily accessible position on a part not subject to replacement in use. It must show clearly and indelibly the following information in the order listed:
2.1.1. Name of the manufacturer.
2.1.2. EEC type-approval number [1].
2.1.3. Vehicle identification number.
2.1.4. Maximum permitted laden weight of the vehicle.
2.1.5. (N/A).
2.1.6. Maximum permitted road weight for each axle, listed in order from front to rear.
2.1.7. (N/A).
2.1.8. (N/A).
If the technically permissible weight is higher than the maximum permitted weight, the Member State in question may request that the technically permissible weight also be stated. The weight would be set out in two columns: the maximum permitted weight on the left and the technically permissible weight on the right.
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So, in trying to interpret the meaning of the two plates on the caravan I’m about to buy, it looks to me that the plate beside the door is the MANUFACTURER'S PLATE referred to above, stating the ‘maximum permitted weight’ 2.1.4. And the plate inside the front locker shows the (higher) ‘technically permissible weight’.
If my interpretation is correct, then I am obliged to observe the maximum permitted weight figure on the plate by the door. If I wish to increase my payload allowance, then I need to request a new Manufacturer’s Plate with the maximum permitted weight increased to the technically permissible weight as per the front locker plate.
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Thanks, Lutz, for quoting the other legislation that actually describes the ideal plate, and the relevance of the weights to each other.
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If the maximum permitted weight (2.1.4.) is less than the technically permissible weight then both must be displayed on the same plate. Legislation doesn’t provide for two plates.
Besides, the label by the door specifically refers to the MTPLM (Maximum Technically Permitted Laden Mass), which it definitely isn’t. If anything it would be an MPLM (as per paragraph 2.1.4.).
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Well, having "lower" and "upper" MTPLM figures for a caravan is misleading for consumers. The real MTPLM is the upper one, the lower one being for marketing purposes but also - as I interpret it - the one you would be tested against if stopped at a weighbridge.
The figure I always look at first is the MIRO, which is much more meaningful. If only manufacturers and the NCC could allow a more sensible user payload figure of 180 - 200kg, there would be no need for two MTPLM figures.
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