B+E test could be scrapped
I've just seen a headline on the online version of The Telegraph stating the government is thinking of scrapping the B+E test so examiners can be freed up to take HGV tests to try and lighten the shortage of lorry drivers. Surely that would confuse the whole towing issue.
I couldn't read the article because it faded out as it was a subscription issue. Anyone else have further news.
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... Surely that would confuse the whole towing issue.
I thought it was already confused .... We now have the ridiculous situation of a new/newer driver that can tow a 1749kg trailer with a 1750kg car but isn't allowed to tow that same trailer with something more suitable like a 2tonne plus 4x4 But that same new/newer driver can pass his/her test & get behind the wheel of a 200mph supercar the same day. And IIRC the rules changed again after Jan 97/98 🤷♂️
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Can anyone remember what the rational was for changing the system in 1997? I assume that scraping the test would just take us back to the pre 1997 rules? Could one argue that it is a bit strange that a 35 year old can tow less than an 85 year old without doing another test?
It's difficult, without more precise information, but is it just a suspension of the trailer tests for a temporary period or is it permanent?
David
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I understand that HGV drivers under 70 are re-tested [checked] every three years and those over 70 every year. Could it be that those re-tests are being delayed and putting many off the road? If so it may be that examiners are being instructed to concentrate on those. Also, I'm fairly confident that most examiners are not qualified to test HGV drivers.
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It does seem the proposal is to do away with them
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Interesting the IAM has weighed in against the idea without citing any evidence for their view!
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You could well be right about the medical side but I thought they also had to cover some form of competency / on going learning thing as well. Could be wrong
.I still can't see how the suggestion is going to help much as the majority of examiners still don't have the qualifications to carry out HGV tests.
I'm not surprised about the IAM response. We have an I AM "expert" in the family
. Not sure about scrapping B+E tests as there are enough idiots out there without adding untrained ones to pool
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With regard to instruction and tests we must have something local because there are lots of vehicles towing with L plates. Literally saw one on our way out today, horsebox towing and training, not seen that before but various trainers - logos on gives them away 😉 generally a box trailer being towed. I presume some must be on tests.
DIL did hers, for taking trailers from farm to farm when not connected by fields, son has yet to do his. I know of a friends daughter who is mad keen go get a horse and she will need to get training to tow. That's how they're keeping her waiting 😉
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Not sure about scrapping B+E tests as there are enough idiots out there without adding untrained ones to pool .
I bet not many on here took any sort of test before they started towing other than the standard driving test? As it happens younger people with and ordinary licence (post 1997), having passed the standard driving test, can tow a caravan albeit not a really heavy one but a caravan nonetheless. If to tow a caravan a test is required it should apply to all trailers? Likewise now can I drive a motorhome which weighs 3500 kgs but not one weighing 150 kgs heavier. It is all nonsense but unfortunately there has never been anyone at the department of transport or in Government willing to put common sense first
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The driving licence changes came from Europe! We held onto grandfather rights for those who took a test before 1997 allowing us to tow trailers, and bigger vehicles up to 7.5tonnes.
LGV drivers have to take a medical every 5 years from 45 and I believe every year once 65. There is no driving assessment required, but now drivers also require a driver CPC,( renewable every 5 years) which requires some training (equivalent to 1 day a year I believe). It is this cpc requirement that stops drivers, like me, who hold a LGV licence from driving commercially.
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And lots of B+E instructors whose business will be very badly affected. (Including the club).
The piece that makes me laugh is where it says, people will be able to save money by not having to pay for the test and then goes onto say they would still encourage drivers to take professional training. As if that would happen.
So in 1997 the government introduced b + e to make towing safer and now in 2021 they are suggesting new drivers will be ok without being qualified. What's that all about.
Anything to do with road safety that takes a backward step such as this, to me, is ludicrous.
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... Anything to do with road safety that takes a backward step such as this, to me, is ludicrous.
but do you ever feel that you missed out on training when you first started to tow? I suspect you just hitched up & got on with it like everyone else. And IMHO a 'younger' driver without the B+E is potentially less safe when they are towing virtually weight for weight while trying to stay within the 3.5 tonne limit.
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I didn't pay for instruction but i did go to an old airfield nearby to practice with a friend who had towed for many years. So no, I didn't hitch up and go except when I took the van home from the dealers, about 6 miles.
Remember, I mentioned the B+E being introduced in 1997. Why did the government deem it necessary?
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... So no, I didn't hitch up and go except when I took the van home from the dealers, about 6 miles.
I think that you must be the exception that proves the rule then. I reckon most here just hitched up & went. I'd been reversing double axle trailers (a swivel axle at the front & a fixed at the back) around a farm from being 14 /15yr old, and hitched up our 1st caravan ... it was only little though ... and drove 20 miles home
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As to what happened, I haven't looked but I would suspect that the accident statistics haven't changed (less accidents involving caravans) from before 1997 to now and therefore showing that it hasn't had the effect that justifies it's existence.
My training was hiring a caravan, being told how to hitch up and then being followed by my father in law for 30 miles. That was it.
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Indeed ED. Apart from giving more room when turning, I actually felt safer towing than solo as far less acceleration.
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As an old relic, I have grandfather rights. I had no formal training, the first practice being a tow of my 5m boat down to the local sailing club. When I bought my first caravan, I just hooked up and went.
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I think that you must be the exception that proves the rule then
I don't think Harry is an exception, I did some thing similar taking the cravan to an industrial estate to practice reversing on Sundays when everything was shut up . I also did the C&MC towing course for which they gave a certificate. The tips were useful and It did inspire confidence. At the very least a training course should be compulsary if not a test. This would then be similar to the requirement fo what white van man has to do to drive electric vehicles over 3.5 tons.
peedee
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I think the problem with the current rules is that anyone can still "hitch up and go" provided that they've chosen a suitably lightweight towcar.
In terms of road safety, I'd have thought that minimising the weight ratio (and certainly keeping it under 85%) would be desirable, but that's just guidance. It's perfectly legal to have the mass of the caravan exceed the mass of the car provided that you don't exceed the caravan MTPLM and the vehicle's GTW.
If you've been driving around with a B-licence combination and just want to upgrade to a heavier (therefore safer) car... why would you want to pay £500-1000 to instructors to be trained for something you're already doing? You can't just go and do the test yourself as the rules about the trailer you must use, and the load which must be inside, are quite specific.
It's notable that the people who think there should be a test for other people have usually not had to do one themselves! Perhaps the answer is to require that everyone does it regardless of when they passed their car test...
I'd imagine a CAMC course would be more useful since you'd actually practice towing a caravan.
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I wonder if the agenda is really to remove the current trailer entitlement until a test has been passed?
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