Club EV charging costs
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There are 30 + charging providers in the UK, but you can think of the providers as Shell, BP, Esso etc, and the systems as petrol or diesel (or high octane Petrol or high octane diesel). All the providers use the same pump type, you just have to pick the right one for your car.
But there is no common payment method yet. One vendors card won't work in anothers. Use of contactless payment is a step in the right direction but it is not universal yet.
peedee
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The UK program of new power station building is being driven by replacing old equipment that is being taken out of service with new, not by increasing net demand. The peak UK usage had dropped in recent times (since peak of 2005). There is more of a challenge at the DNO level and at the local level, no argument, and individual club sites will each have different issues. But this is a good point in time to examine what they do have and how it can be prepared for the future.
I am not expecting a short term fix, (that is in place with the EV charging policy) but a longer term strategy that looks to take the club into the future. By the time 2030 comes, I will be on my 3rd or 4th EV and have been towing with some form of electric vehicle for over 13 years. I may be in the tiny minority now, but it would be good for the club to be ready for when the even the large minority are on EV rather than wait to have a plan for the majority?
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OscarMax wrote "We informed them we have 2 80 watt solar panels on the roof so don't use the caravans charger, and charge up the mobility scooter using our invertor ? still £6.00."
Am I reading this right. You are being charged even though you aren't using EHU?
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"I may be in the tiny minority now, but it would be good for the club to be ready for when the even the large minority are on EV rather than wait to have a plan for the majority"
Did you ever do as I suggested on page 1 and contact the club with your thoughts? If so, did it result in any definite information which would obviate the need for speculation which, as far as most of us know, has little or no basis in fact?
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I seem to recall reading that some CLs won't allow charging of electric bikes which I do think is rather petty. Perhaps they could charge 50p a night extra for each bike that is going to be recharged and show it on their on their website so people are aware of it. Three years ago I stayed at the CL at Hatton Country World. It is situated next to the rally field and some cheeky people on the rally field had pitched right against the hedge and hooked up to the spare CL hook up.
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"But there is no common payment method yet. One vendors card won't work in anothers. Use of contactless payment is a step in the right direction but it is not universal yet."
But all new public chargers have to have contactless as well as whatever RFID or app based approach the company chooses to use. So thats not an issue for public charging at a club site, or for private (member only) at a club site where some other mechanism could be used.
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"Did you ever do as I suggested on page 1 and contact the club with your thoughts? If so, did it result in any definite information which would obviate the need for speculation which, as far as most of us know, has little or no basis in fact?"
No - not yet. I am interested in a public discussion on the topic and to see what opinions others hold in order to refine my own thinking before I contact them.
So far my take is that charging EVs, the payment for it and the provision of dedicated charging capacity, needs to be part of wider reform by the club in overall electricity use.
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With respect, I don’t think you can make any assumption based on the posts here. The club has hundreds of thousands of members but only a handful post on this forum. In no way can the views expressed here be seen as representative of the whole membership.
I fear that any survey on the subject will always reflect the individuals' views of what will be of most benefit to them rather than what will be the best way for the club to manage the issue in a businesslike and effective manner.
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I think the main problem with the CAMC EV/PHEV offering is the loss of power to the van when the charge is being used so it isn't a satisfactory way of dealing with the situation. The supply is 16amp and whilst a charge is being taken the supply to the van is reduced. A pitch fee covers electrical usage in general but an extra fee is charged for a PHEV/EV charge even though the user is actually doing a balancing act with what is supplied. The user can't draw more than the supply and an adjoining pitch user without a PHEV/EV may well be using the domestic element with every conceivable appliance at the highest level too.
I think this is the main gist of the conversation on here written by the OP and as an EV user I would be in agreement, but we won't be attempting to charge ours on a site, this is indeed a juggling act for which we would have to pay an extra fee!
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There is a big difference between a Plug-in hybrid and a full EV. The PHEV doesn’t require top-up at all; you are simply trying to grab some free electricity instead of buying diesel. Plugging into the caravan socket outlet will just trickle charge at 10 amps or less overnight and grab you around 20 miles free towing. With a full EV there is no other option than charging the vehicle and you need a substantial power supply to do that in a reasonable time period - a minimum of 32 amps for several hours.
So, charging a PHEV by plugging into the caravan or motorhome socket outlet will use less than an awning heater, albeit for a longer period. It is reasonable for the Club to charge for this. A proper EV charger requires a dedicated supply which the Club say they will introduce at certain locations. This will probably be charged at commercial rates using a credit card - maybe 35 pence a unit which is 2-3 times your home cost and 7 times my cheap overnight changing rate.
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I disagree that charging a PHEV is looking for free miles. I actively charge my PHEV where I can and pay for the privilege within reason. That’s out of choice to run a greener car. When staying on a CL I always offer to pay an additional £2 per day to cover the charging.
The point for me is 2 fold. 1) there is a balancing act which forces a lower charging rate that caps the maximum you can put in a car In 24 hours. For a PHEV this is acceptable as you could actually consume £2 of electricity, but for a BEV, £8 makes no sense without a dedicated charging facility.
2) having a strategic policy for electricity usage and charging that covers everything from awning heaters to electric BBQs to car charging is needed for the future.
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So far my take is that charging EVs, the payment for it and the provision of dedicated charging capacity, needs to be part of wider reform by the club in overall electricity use.
I recall from the minutes of a Club meeting of 2/3 years ago, perhaps an AGM, the Club had a working party looking into this aspect but nothing has been communicated to the membership since.
I certainly agree reform is needed on how users are charge for electricty use, its been a bee in my bonnet ever since the Club stopped the choice of paying for it.
peedee
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I would also disagree that the PHEV owners are looking for free miles. We've got an Outlander PHEV and normally I wouldn't bother charging up when away from home. BUT.... we will happily pay to charge when we're towing. The car needs the help from the electric motors to make decent headway when towing the van. It makes such a difference, that I'm happy to pay (or go out of my way) to recharge the car if we'll be towing the following day.
As an indication, we put our car into "charge" mode when we are towing, so we're constantly trying to put electricity into the battery ready for any hills we meet!
So far, charging at sites has been relatively trouble free. We ask permission / pay if required and plug in via the van. Normally that's just overnight once we head to bed. With a 12kWh battery, it suits that pattern. I'd love to go pure electric, but I think dedicated high speed charging points will be needed to make it work.
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"so we're constantly trying to put electricity into the battery ready for any hills we meet!"
That would suggest that the ICE in these hybrid vehicles are not fit for purpose when towing caravans.
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That would suggest that the ICE in these hybrid vehicles are not fit for purpose when towing caravans.
I think it speaks more to the specifics of that vehicle. There are many PHEV vehicles and a number of different ways of combining the ICE and EV components. The outlander uses a series / parallel mix which is great at high speed towing, but not quite so good at low speed towing, but can return very good efficiency over all, and has huge flexibility in 2wd vs 4wd modes
The Volvo system in the V60/V90/XC60/XC90 is a parallel only mode, that has the ICE drive the front wheels and Electric motor drive the rear. Here high and low speed towing is fine, but you are a little more compromised on the AWD capability (though I have never noticed an issue) and can tow perfectly well with the traction battery completely empty.
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When there are Hybrids and EVs put forward for towing competions and then MPC is measured with a van on the hook ,,will we be more likely to be inclined to go down that route
The way it seems High? mileages are being promoted by car companies is at 30kph and lightly loaded
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I have >this< on order (due in next 3 weeks) and will be towing my Bailey Unicorn 3 Vigo with it. Real world range is between 200-240 depending on conditions. Towing will be around half that (just as towing range with my current PHEV is half what it is when solo, and same with the previous ICE only). If I can tow for 100 is miles before a 35 min stop to charge, then that suits me just fine. Currently when towing I stop roughly every 2 hours for a break anyway - so really no change.
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That is a real leap of fairth CT, many will be interested to know how you get on, please let us know.
Not so much - I still have the PHEV V60 in case its needed, but intend to fully embrace the BEV + Caravan combo if its possible. I have a few long weekends planned and then will see how it works with charging and longer trips. But will keep this thread updated!
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You may need the 2hr break when you come to recharge as I was having this discussion with the owner of a BMW ( can't remember the exact model),He was getting around 90mls towing before needing a recharge then came the problems,1 getting on to a charging point, 2 had to unhitch caravan and leave parked up because charging point could only accommodate vehicle, 3 if the services was a one way system he had to go to next junction turn round and collect caravan. And he was doing a 360 mile journey which was going to turn out to be a long day.
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Are the club also going to install petrol and diesel pumps to save the majority of us from having to find a filling station? I think not, nor do I expect them to. I'll stick with my 4.2 litre V8 turbo diesel. No problem going up hills (even very steep ones). It can even tow a 747.......
The whole concept of electric vehicles as a solution for emissions is nuts, when taking into account all the factors in constructing them.
VW carried out an in depth study, and concluded that you would need to run an EV for 80k miles before its OVERALL emissions fell below a standard ICE car. Fact. And how many people do that?
Also, there is no doubt that the currently unspoken issue of tax on EV''s will arrive soon.
Greta and her acolytes (including HMG) are just not being honest. Bandwagon - jump on it.
I'll sit back now and wait for the howls of protest.
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You really have not the slightest idea of how a hybrid work, especially a PHEV, I will try to explain but I have suffered a brain injury a few years ago, but I will do my best.
A ICE vehicle is only 40% efficient, a hybrid like the latest Toyota RAV4 will harvested any energy wasted energy for every 3 miles ICE mode you will gain approximately 1 mile EV rain, this can and is used to power the hybrid.
A PHEV as per Hybrid has the ability to charge up using the main electricity and a considerable larger battery to call on, even in Charge/ Save mode the PHEV will harvest any wasted energy. A conventual ICE vehicle runs at varying throttle opening air speed between 80 - 110 m/s, the PHEV ICE unit runs at fixed at the most efficient air speed, any excess torque is used to charge up the batteries.
A PHEV travelling downhill especially with a caravan in tow, the batteries are being charged up by the front and rear motors, in our case 60 kW and 70 kW, travelling back up hill the rear 70 kW kicks in and assist the ICE unit.
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"Are the club also going to install petrol and diesel pumps to save the majority of us from having to find a filling station? I think not, nor do I expect them to."
Nor would I. But the club has already installed chargers in Brighton, and every location with a hookup is capable of charging an EV. That is one of the nice things about EVs - you can charge them pretty much anywhere there is civilisation.
"I'll stick with my 4.2 litre V8 turbo diesel. No problem going up hills (even very steep ones). It can even tow a 747......."
Jolly good. My 408Hp, 600Nm EV can too. See you when you get to the top.
"The whole concept of electric vehicles as a solution for emissions is nuts, when taking into account all the factors in constructing them.
VW carried out an in depth study, and concluded that you would need to run an EV for 80k miles before its OVERALL emissions fell below a standard ICE car. Fact. And how many people do that?"
Or if you compare a Polestar 2 and a Volvo XC40 (same chassis), the payback period is as little as 50K, (30,000 miles) or less than 3 years (read here). And that is just counting tailpipe CO2 emissions, not the emissions created from actually making diesel or petrol (about 30% more for petrol or 24% more for diesel) (read here). So payback is closer to 22,000 miles or less than 2 years.
"Also, there is no doubt that the currently unspoken issue of tax on EV''s will arrive soon."
Sure the government is going to have to close the gap on revenues from drivers. The proposed plan? - Road charging. I.e. a fee that all drivers will have to pay on top of the tax on their car or fuel. Outside of the purchase costs (which are in some cases comparable and others still high, but falling), if you think that the cost of using an EV will ever be more than that of using an ICE car, you are kidding yourself.
My reason for "going green" and buying an EV? A mix, but the over-riding factor is economics. Over the next 4 years running a band new 400Hp Polestar 2 is going to cost me about the same ask keeping my 12 year old XC90 would have done. No brainer...
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…..but you have to buy the new car so there is a cost.🤷🏻♂️
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But is 12 year old needed replacing anyway.
I have too admit Chocolate Trees, has made a very brave decision, but is willing to make some compromises to how they will caravan, if in the same position would I do the same, probably not quite just yet, but I think we are getting there.
I have gone down the halfway route and now tow with a PHEV, am I happy yes, would I go back to a conventual ICE, no change, I am saving an absolute fortune my fuel costs have dropped dramatically, in the past 11 months enough for 4 weeks away in the caravan.
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