Exceeding 5 vans
I’m wondering how manŷ CLs will break the 5 van rule over coming weeks now that most if us are back to vanning and demand is high. I suspect quite a few will to try and recoup some of their lost income. In a way, I can see why they would do it but at the end of the day, their licence is for 5 vans although many have room for more. Would you report them - I suspect not?
We’ve arrived on site tonight- booked over a year ago. The CL has two separate sites, one has 7 vans in on it and the other has 6. The owner joked with us that he hoped the inspector didn’t call. I won’t report it as I really like the site and it does have room so would hate to see it removed but are rules rules?
Interested in your thoughts
Comments
-
Not something that I have encountered although I have probably used no more than a dozen CLs in the last 20 years.
I won't count the 6th van on a nice site that we stayed on as the owner was away on holiday and his brother and family were pitched up well away from the pitches, down the side of one of the buildings on a car park area and was minding the shop so to speak.
0 -
I'd report the OP's findings to the club. Sites that flout their exemption certification actually put the whole exemption system in jeopardy. The club could end up losing the right to issue certificates which would close all CLs at a stroke. We'd all be the losers then.
If site owners wish to take more than 5 vans, they are perfectly free to seek planning permission for them. All it takes is a bit of effort and money but they find it easier to break the law and put every site and the club at risk.
7 -
Not even in view of the possible ramifications? Oh well 🤷♂️
4 -
Cherokee, If instead he had said "I'm terribly sorry, but I made a mistake and overbooked, I'm afraid you can't come in, you must go away and find somewhere else", he would have been keeping to the rules. Would you have preferred that?
0 -
It sounds as if it may not be a one off at this CL and is running a small? caravan site without the responsibilitie of having to apply to his LA for the licence to make it legal? or would not get it
How many pitches are there,over the 2x5 that should be? have they all got EHU
0 -
In the past I have reported a site for overcrowding and that was prompted by the way the owner treated a young family who had a confirmed booking.
The site we were on a couple of weeks ago had 6 vans on it. I didn’t and won’t report the owners as they are an elderly couple without email, so everything is done by phone so I think some confusion has set in. Further I don’t think money is the driving force. Anyway after nearly 4 months of lockdown I had better things to do with my time1 -
We stayed on a CL in Suffolk last year which had 6 grass pitches with EHU and 4HS with EHU pitches that are for winter use only? so the owner stated , the grass pitches are only for summer use
Ps and a toilet and shower for site users only that we took one look at
and used the C/van
Not sure if it is still the same after our report
ps we only used it as we had tickets for a concert in the area and did not want to drive home about 60 miles in the dark
0 -
We have stayed on a cpuple of CLs where there have been more than 5 units, but the vast majority have stuck to the rules.. Of course, it's impossible to know whether that's a regular occurrence unless one returns to the same site frequently. On one there was a 6th van which seemed to be a permanent fixture but could, of course, simply have been stored on the site. It was not connected to water or EHU and no one used it while we were there. On another there appeared to be 2 separate pitching areas, which I believe is allowed; one had 4 units, the other 3 and there was plenty of space. Although the toilet/showers were shared there was never a queue.
On the whole,,over the years, we have been more than happy with the CLs we've used and, as I say, the vast majority appear to play by the rules.
1 -
Over the years we have stayed on many CLs, the vast majority of which have had only five units at a time. The very few that have exceeded five units, (with one notable exception), have, in my opinion, plenty of room for the extra unit or even two.
There is a CL close to the ferry on the south coast that occasionally has more than five units but the problem here is that some arrive very late at night and are gone very early next morning to catch a ferry. The CL is providing a service to many members and prevents units from just being parked up in lay-bys for several hours close to the ferries.
Another CL that we went to in Dorset allows departing units to stay until evening if they wish to. This does cause a problem for incoming visitors if the pitches are all taken. This must happen fairly regularly as the owner has EHU cable splitters so that two units can be run from the one EHU outlet. Not a situation that I liked having driven 200+ miles to be told that I would have to wait until the other unit left in the evening before I could properly site the caravan and put up the awning.
All in all I think the system is generally running OK. For the vast majority of CLs I wouldn't 'shop' them if they exceeded the five units as they are usually CLs that I have carefully chosen for their location, access and facilities. I don't consciously chose them "because they will only have five units". I wouldn't want them being closed and me not being able to re-visit. I'm not going to cut off my nose to spite my face! If it was a CL that I liked and there were more than five units it wouldn't stop me going back.
In view of the ever increasing number of caravans and motorhomes being used we desperately need more pitches available nationally. Allowing CLs to have one or two more units if space allowed would be an easy way to help alleviate the problem without having to open new CLs. It would also give the owners a little bit more income with not much more outlay, something that is much needed in rural communities
1 -
The clubs website it seems is not really helping with pitch availability even on club sites i have looked at late availability for this weekend and several areas show no availability this weekend ,but if looking at sites in those ares there is availability on some
0 -
Old, old story. 1) its a cash business 2) The LA is not interested in policing it 3) not sure if the club is that interested 4) Its quite easy to get planning for small sites and ironically using the excess usage as a means to show (a) no problems with highway access (b) no problems with neighbours. The network is shrinking and I guess many are moving the small site route to make it viable. With the need go for Hard standings, EHU, then the 5 rule is just antiquated. Until someone grasps the problem and gets the antiquated rules reviewed the network will just fade away.
0 -
A farm owner near here simply said to himself , Why am I wearing this 5 van straitjacket? So went down the road which Fisherman has eloquently spelled out, got planning permission, opened a second field, welcomed more people and counted the cash.
I don't think the law will change, and the Clubs don't want it to, but individual land owners will continue to make their own decisions.
0 -
I agree with the 2 above. Lethargy will lead to the eventual demise of C;s. Ironically the other club has 5 vans & 10 tents. To the authorities 15 UNITS. When you look at the size of todays tents it just does not make any sense. Fortunately old age means I no longer use Cls which was the mainstay of my vanning.
0 -
To be honest I would have been mightily hacked off as I’d booked so far in advance!
Having been a vanner for 25 years using predominantly CLs, as we do love them, my question was purely out of interest ..... wondering how many owners will break the rules to recoup the money they’ve lost (like the one I am currently on) and asking for people’s thoughts, most of which have been given - thank you. In our experience not many do but given the current situation, I can see why this would happen.
For info - this owner has two CLs both with water, CDP and bins with 6 pitches on each, plus splitters for extras if needed. I did notice a new CL just up the road which we might try for our next visit to the area
0 -
This issue has been raised before along with the suggestion of getting the number of allowed vans increased. This has met with resistance on the basis of "letting sleeping dogs lie". Given the enthusiasm for boosting the economy currently, perhaps now is the optimum time to put forward such a proposal, say to eight vans, subject to any increase above five being conditional on a site being a minimum of 1 acre.
Do people think this should be put to CAMC, C&CC etc.?
0 -
At present, CY, this club can’t even cope with communicating simple facts to members. Do you honestly feel they'd welcome such a suggestion at this time?
I rather think the Govt also has its hands full dealing with other matters at present.
0 -
The pleas for a change in the law to allow more than 5 vans have been going on for 20 years. It won't happen in my lifetime.
The way forward is in the hands of individual farmers who have land and are looking to diversify. An example I have quoted before is Ashe Farm, just off the M5 at Taunton. They have a lovely website, with lovely photographs, and 30 pitches spread across two fields with lots of space. The customers love it and sing their praises in the reviews.
The best thing is to leave CLs as they are and let them gently dwindle. But they are the past not the future.
0 -
The Certificated system gives those able to issue them quite a lot of power which providing they stay within the rules there is very little challenge. From what the Club has said before on this issue it suggests a fear that promoting any changes, however sensible, could provoke a completely new look at the system which could result taking away of that delegated power. Is it possible that the Club's don't, from time to time, have discussions with the authorities on this subject and perhaps they don't like the direction of travel from what they hear? From a CL operator point of view I would imagine there would be some support for a doubling of capacity to 10 pitches assuming the amount of space allowed for that number. But if it opens a can of worms is it worth it?
David
0 -
I think the effort would be better spent in encouraging the opening of new CLs and in providing help and advice to keep existing ones open.
2 -
We always use c.l.s not only because they are cheaper and are in some really nice locations but mainly because we really like the atmosphere of only having 5 vans! these sites are much more relaxing and peaceful and we book them because of this,as I'm sure many others do!
5 -
From what the Club has said before on this issue it suggests a fear that promoting any changes, however sensible, could provoke a completely new look at the system which could result taking away of that delegated power
I can think of no time when, as at present trying to escape a pandemic and to support small business, an adverse effect is less likely
1 -
Do people who advocate making CL numbers larger understand the advantages of the certification scheme which is unique in allowing a site to be set up without planning permission with inherent limitations, believe me there are many people in planning departments up and down the country that would jump at the chance to stop an unfair advantage to a certain section of the leisure industry as they see it. At the end of the day we would end up with the certification system been abolished and more larger sites which can still be achieved now by any CL owner who wishes to apply for planning permission for a larger site.
4 -
Quite the reverse. A planning application for a small tourist site does not even go before the planning committee unless there are proper objections but dealt with by the planning officers under their devolved powers even in a Nat Park. Who in their right mind would contemplate a new Cl with say Hard Standings and EHU and be constrained by 5 units. The planning fee is inconsequential in the costings and there are Government quangos who will prepare the planning application free for you. That is the reality hence the accelerated demise of CL's
0
