Italian Lakes - which tunnel??
Thinking of doing some of the Italian lakes next May, then onto Austria and Germany.
We are quite happy at travelling through France to either of the tunnels, Mont Blanc or Freus but would welcome some advise from those who have travelled that way with a caravan.
Where would you look at spending the night before crossing over and which tunnel and why.
Once through the tunnel's is it easy to reach Maggiore the same day, would like a few days there so where is a good site for cycle trips out, looks like there is lots of sites to choose from but its a big lake where is a good place to site ourselves.
We don't intend on doing all the lakes just a couple, DK on another thread suggested Lake d'Iseo as a nice quieter one, I've found a site that I think will suit.
Many thanks in advance for any helpful interesting suggestions.
Comments
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Why the Tunnels? The quickest way is Calais, Reims, Strasbourg, Basel then through Switzerland and the St. Gottard tunnel. Highly recommend Lake Maggiore so if you go through Switzerland, Locarno is at the top of the Lake. A few miles down and you are in Cannobio . Stunning. I think the cost of two vignettes would probably be less than the extra French tolls and tunnel fees.
I wouldn’t stay in the UK before crossing, cross late and stay in France (various options). Make your way to Alsace then Maggiore is a day from Obernai or Colmar.
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We did the Mont Blanc tunnel in reverse (ie north-bound) this September. I can recommend these 3 sites (all are on ACSI):
https://www.rivesdusoleil.com/en/
They are an easy day's run apart from each other. Lake Iseo is nice. In our experience none of the Italian Lakes is great for walking or if you have a dog, but Camping Covelo is excellent and there are some nice bike rides from it.
We were plasantly surprised by the Aosta area of Italy (where Lazy Bee is). Some great walking in the area and Aosta itself is very pleasant.
Only hassle on the route was going round Milan, where the motorways were chaotic - thank goodness we had a good Satnav! The Mont Blanc tunnel itself was very straightforward.
PS: this site below is in the Italian Dolomites and on the way to/from the Italian Lakes to Austria. A little expensive but very good:
http://www.toblachersee.com/en/
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Agree with hitchglitch better route via Switzerland depends where you start from of course but the Mont Blanc Tunnel is expensive especially if you do a return trip the same way, personally we would not use it again. The tunnel and approach are easy enough plenty of sites in the Chamonix area not far from the tunnel entrance. The tolls on the Italian side seemed expensive but we went to Genoa.
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Thanks H, we will be coming from Zeebrugge as using the Hull crossing. So it will be Belgium, Luxembourg (maybe) then we were thinking of going down to Annecy. However we are flexible so your suggestion of staying at Obernai or Colmar would work too, then drop down to Basel and through Switzerland.
Ideally we like to do a circular trip hence our thought of Annecy and either of the tunnels rather than St. Gottard as we hope to be coming back through Austria and along Bavaria into Colmar (possibly) then up into Luxembourg/ Mosel area before getting ferry back from Zeebrugge.
Biggest job will be missing the hordes at the end of May/June so aiming to be away from the lakes by then.
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TG
If you decide to use the Tunnel de Frejus at Jean de Maurienne there is this rather nice Municipal http://www.davidklyne.co.uk/camping_municipal_des_grand_cols.htm
Allows you to get through the tunnel early the next day. Easy stroll into the town with a supermarket. Frejus is very expensive but no problem with a caravan and the climb up the the tunnel is, from memory, quite gentle. Bit steeper on the Italian side but you will be going downhill!!!
David
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Thanks DK, still looking at all options, just wanted to know what other's do and why?
We once went through Switzerland many years ago when we lived in Germany, we were travelling to Spain on that occasion.
Might be nice to spend a few days on the way through Switzerland, have heard that it is very expensive there though but with a good shop before and acsi sites we should manage
Thanks to those who have replied please keep the suggestions coming, areas we should visit etc and sites. All good info welcome.
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TG
We only used the Tunnel de Frejus because the Mont Cenis Pass was closed, I was keen to give that a try, not sure Margaret was
We only took that route as we were heading for Lake Maggiore and then Como and Garda in turn. Have you thought about the Simplon Pass if you are going through Switzerland? I have not done it but I think others on her have, especially if Maggiore was going to be your first stop?David
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Thanks DK for the suggestion will get OH to look at that.
Could someone tell me if I am wrong but looking at the info on C&MC it says that we will need 2 vignettes to take a car/caravan through Switzerland. Would that not work out more expensive than just getting the tunnel one way. It looks like Mont Blanc is around 58.80€ and Freus 59.80€ one way .
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You are correct. A vignette for car and caravan required for Switzerland.
That's one of the reasons we went Belgium, Luxembourg (cheap fuel), Germany, Fernpass into Austria, Brenner pass into Italy and Lake Garda/Lake Iseo. Perhaps another option for you and cheap too. Enjoy.
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Yes but no, Tammy. The Frejus tunnel price is for a one way journey. The Swiss vignettes will cover a return journey.
If money and time are an issue then go straight across Belgium, Germany and Austria - it's cheaper and quicker. But If you lwant to see stunning scenery then go via Chamonix and the Mont Blanc tunnel, and pause on the Italian side to get up into the Gran Paradiso national park - which hardly ever gets a mention on here. I am envious !
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interesting reading all....
we, too, are looking to head for Italy in May (Spain and Portugal before then...) and would love to do a bit of time in the Lakes area (and much more) before heading on to Croatia (possibly)....
routes/tunnels/passes/tolls/vignettes etc all in the mix....
watching closely...
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We go to Maggiore most years but, rather boringly, we use the same route out as mentioned in my earlier post, however, if you are returning via Maggiore there is a great route over the Simplon pass from Domodosella. The pass itself is quite straightforward and after many years the roadworks have finally been completed. If you get clear, sunny weather when you cross to Switzerland I can highly recommend a trip to Zermatt. There is an ACSI site about 5 miles away and regular minibus service into the town (no access for cars to the town). The Gornegratbahn railway trip past the Matterhorn is sensational although rather expensive.
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Thank you for all the suggestions.
ET, time and money is not an issue, as its something we want to do. I like your suggestion so that is in the mix.
Knowing that at the end of May beginning of June is the German holiday where they descend on the lakes, we are keen to avoid the Lakes at that time.
Our ferry is 5th May return 23 June, we thought to go to Lake Maggiore first then onto d'Iseo. Lake Garda wasn't in the plan (should it be)
After D'Iseo we might look at a couple of days at a beach near to Venice, last time we were there we had two young children with us.
Then it would be a lazy travel up through northern Italy to Austria (suggestions welcomed) we've been to Salzburg a number of times so something different please.
After Austria we might come back across Bavaria and then into France around Colmar/Strasbourg, weather depending.
However if we decide on getting the Swiss Vignette, (still to be decided) we might then be tempted into going from Austria back into Switzerland.
By then it would be around the end of the first week of June, which would give us time for a look around before heading back up to Zeebrugge for the ferry. We would only return to Switzerland IF we buy the vignette, (I do like VFM)
We lived in Germany 20 years so not going there isn't an issue.
Although the cost isn't an issue I've priced them up, as it stands at the moment, the Mont Blanc is coming out at £51.26, Freus £52.13 and the Swiss Vignette x 2 is £61.08. So there is very little in it other than as ET mentioned the tunnels are just 1 way.
We will sit down with the maps and look at all the routes and suggestions over the coming days.
Please keep your suggestions and reasons why coming. Once we have decided on a route site suggestions would also be welcomed.
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Tammy, a homeward route from north Italy to Austria which we like is to head west from Bolzano (call and see the Ice Man corpse in their museum) up the Adige valley via Malles Venosta ( good but expensive campsite well worth a few days to explore that area) , then over the easy Reschen Pass to Austria (but divert first to a site in the Engadine valley in Switzerland to look at St Moritz, and no vignette needed on that road). And on towards home as you wish from there.
But you of all people don't need your hand held !
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Thanks ET will pass it on to the boss to add to the list.
No hand holding required
however I'm always open to suggestions. There is soooooo much to see and do that its impossible to get it right every time We are not big on lots of walking (certainly no hills) but we do like to go for bike rides so always looking for sites and places like lakes, promenades and riversides/canal that we can go for a ride.
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Our ferry is 5th May return 23 June, we thought to go to Lake Maggiore first then onto d'Iseo. Lake Garda wasn't in the plan (should it be)
Lake Garda depends! Probably not in the German school holidays. Having said that I like Lake Garda and the surrounding towns. It will be busy so if you want to avoid maybe not. But I like busy. What about Como?
David
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OK for Garda but for Maggiore/Como it would be a very long way round but I agree that it is a popular route to Italy due to fewer tolls although this is partially offset by the greater distance and fuel cost. A good compromise is to go Belgium, Germany, Basel. You have to buy the vignettes (two for a towed caravan, one for a motorhome) but in return you get a great road system with no further charges and stunning scenery. Maggiore is a comfortable day trip from Strasbourg.
Having spend many years visiting Garda when the children were with us we would always choose Maggiore now. Garda is very large and commercialised. From Maggiore you can also visit Lake Orta.
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OK for Garda but for Maggiore/Como it would be a very long way round but I agree that it is a popular route to Italy due to fewer tolls although this is partially offset by the greater distance and fuel cost.
That's what we were thinking H, not sure that we want to do Garda and now that DK has said its always busy it kind of reinforces that. Neither of us are keen on busy sites or towns.
What is it like for cycling at Maggiore? we prefer that to walking or taking the car out all the time.
The idea of going to the Italian lakes is that we really liked Annecy, Geneva and Aix- les- Bains so where hoping it was going to be like them in that we can cycle alongside the lake.
We tend not to uses Toll roads in France so little to no cost there.
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Maggiore, Garda and other lakes are much the same. The roads along the lakeside can be narrow and very busy. Once you go inland you have steep inclines so this is not really cycling country.
Having said that, if you went via Locarno to Cannobio and stayed somewhere like Camping Val Romantica the roads back towards Locarno are reasonable. If you go South towards Verbania it is very busy and narrow so car is best (or ferry or bus). Once you get to Verbania and towards Stresa the roads are better and the surrounding area is flatter.
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My preference is to use the St Gottardo tunnel for access to the north Italian lakes. There’s a beautiful site at Faldo just south of the tunnel that we regularly use. I’m not a great fan of Garda either but Maggiore is less busy. The Bavarian school holidays (Pfingsten) start on 8th June next year so most areas won’t be busy until then. Cycling can be challenging around many of the lakes due to the lack of continuous cycle paths. If you’re intending to visit the Adriatic coast in the Venice area then Camping Capalonga in Bibione has the best beaches and the cycling from the site is excellent with dedicated circular cycle routes. There are also a number of free ferries that extend the cycle routes to Lignano and even Caorle.
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German school holidays are staggered by region so it can be busy anytime in May and June. This is made worse by the fact that the lakes are only a few hours from Southern Germany so can get very busy at weekends. Although our favourite site in Cannobio, Maggiore, has been full in May it would generally not be a problem finding a pitch if you arrive mid afternoon. I certainly wouldn't book.
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Thanks H and Dave for the new info, so what you are saying then is there are no dedicated cycle paths around the lakes like you find in France?
If that is the case then we may well have to re-think going there
Dave thanks for info on Capalonga, a blast from the past there. Its 30 years since we were last in Italy with a caravan and that was at Bibione
not sure what the site was called though. Good to hear that its ok for cycling. 0 -
Hi TG, Have been reading the posts on your thread and a lot of views to consider! The holidays in the two German states closest to Italy are 10-21 June so effectively that’s Sat 8/6 to Sat 22/6.
So far as routes go then it will depend on your decision to include, or not, Annecy, Garda and the Adriatic. If not going to Annecy then I would do the route that you mention to get to Basel and then use the Swiss motorways-with your two vignettes!
We have tried many routes, been through both tunnels and also via the Fern and Reschen passes to get to Garda. The tunnels were used for a bit of variety, the Swiss route from Basel is the most frequently used and next time we go, probably 2020, then it will be most likely via the Fern Pass route.
The Swiss route is a great drive, and we would always have an overnight on at least one leg of the trip, but the availability of sites that are close to the route, and that are not eye wateringly expensive, has shrunk year on year to the extent that any trip using this route ended up being straight through with no stop which meant that we considered other options such as the Fern route. We did consider, a couple if years ago, going via the Fern to Prutz then onto St Moritz and over the Maloja Pass to reach the Northern end of Lake Como and this is an option for next time.
So far as the Simplon Pass we did that many years ago when the St Gothard was shut, following a rock fall that caused the deaths of German tourists whose car was hit, and found it a reasonable but busy with trucks due to the closure at St Gothard. Mind you it was easier than the outward 96 mile diversion!
In regard to Garda we have visited many times and yes, it can be busy, but, as DK said, we quite like that and whilst some sites are large and busy others are not so a bit of research will help on that front. The site we use, Camping Bella Italia, has many plus points for us, and if we had to choose one site to return to for ever it would be that, but it will not suit all and as it was introduced to us by my parents, who are no longer with us, then there is an emotional tie as well.
There is so much to do around Garda and cycle paths are quite common as the area is popular with cyclists. There is a new cycle path being built which has had a lot of publicity and it is intended to eventually circle the whole lake and be 87 miles long! Being in Italy however any progress may be slow!
In regard to sites we have stayed at, that would fit with you outline plans, and would recommend then;
Italy-Camping Bella Italia is on the lake side and an easy walk to town where you can get a ferry to anywhere on the lake. There is a mainline station for trips to Venice/Milan etc. and the bus stops at the camp gate for trips to Sirmione/Verona etc.
Camping Valle Romantica has been mentioned and we have stayed there three times. It’s a smaller site and pitches a bit small but it had a lovely atmosphere and Cannobio is on the border between Italy and Switzerland so a good variety of outings available including lake trips.
Camping Rannochio at Piano Porlezza is beside a small lake which is part of a nature reserve, has a supermarket close by and is just a short drive to Mennagio on Lake Como. Here you can get a car ferry across the lake to Varenna or a passenger one to various stops on the lake, including Bellagio. The route to here from the Swiss motorways was a bit challenging in places, due to small villages and smaller roads, but a tunnel opened a couple of years ago and its now probably a lot more relaxing!
Austria- Aktiv Camping Prutz at Prutz is on the bank of the River Inn and very handy if doing the Fern/Reschen Pass route. We intended to stay one night but liked it so much we stayed four. The area is very appealing and there is a private road to the ski station /restaurant etc. on the Kaunerteller Glacier which is well worth the cost to use it. One thing to note is that if you use the Fern/Reschen route so long as you go via Landeck town and not the Landecker Tunnel it is completely toll free.
Germany-using the Pass route we stayed at Camping Christopherous for an overnight. It is very handy for the A7 motorway, has good facilities and the restaurant meal was one of the best we had in our whole holiday.
Switzerland- Camping Sempach on the lakeside at Sempach is very easy to reach and just off the motorway as is Camping Buochs in Buochs on Lake Lucerne. There are numerous trip options from here including a three cable car trip to the top of Mount Titlis and circular trips using cable cars, trains and boats.
My wife has often said that I get more enjoyment from the holiday planning than the holiday itself and hope a bit of that applies to you!
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Hi AD, over the years we too have been impressed by many things about BI. We still remember walking down to the lake on our first visit , a quick three day visit staying with my parents,and thinking how beautiful it was and then returning a few weeks later having changed our holiday plans to stay there.
That trip was using Camping Cheques and the site had a 14=11 and 7=5 offer so it cost us less than £7 a night and we had a pitch on the first row which on many sites would not be available to users of discount schemes.
We have over the years been impressed that they are always ,making improvements and apparently spending a lot of money doing so and it always surprises us that the staff in the restaurants, supermarket etc are the same as the first time we visited. Even more surprising is when they remember you and make a big fuss welcoming you back!
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Some of the sites mentioned by Allan and Jean:-
http://www.davidklyne.co.uk/camping_bella_italia.htm
http://www.davidklyne.co.uk/active_camping_prutz.html
http://www.davidklyne.co.uk/camping_christophorus.html
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Hi David, its likely that Prutz and Christoperous were 'discovered' via your site reports!
I always read them with with interest and am always impressed that someone is prepared to spend so much time and effort to assist others.
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