Appalled by the “Winter Escapes” brochure omission
Today I received the “Winter Escapes” brochure from the CAMC. In this brochure the Club is actively trying to make money from members by encouraging them to book sites in a number of different countries which have specific requirements for winter tyres and snow chains. Most British cars, motorhomes and caravans are not equipped with M+S or Winter tyres. There is no mention anywhere in the 120 pages that they are compulsory in for example Austria or mandatory in many others if it is snowy, frosty, icy or below certain temperatures. There is a hypertext link to the overseas page of the club website where one needs to search further for information on tyres. In a pdf file the information can be found. The link to it is here.
This information should be in the brochure. Why is it not?
What about members who do not have access to the internet or are not internet “savvy”? The club has a duty to help protect it’s members and give them the best and most accurate advice possible. It is failing to do so. It is a “serial offender”. I first drew this omission of information to the attention of the club many years ago when we booked a Christmas Markets tour with them.
Any comments CAMC?
Comments
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"Appalled" is a bit strong , isn't it?
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Surely the brochure is just to whet one's appetite as to what is available and is only a first step in the construction of a potential holiday? I would have thought if you are intending to go to a country in winter where snow could be expected then more personal research would be needed. Is it not fairly obvious that suitable tyres and snow chains would be required in such circumstances?
David
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The tyre regulations in “colder climes” are there for road safety reasons. I certainly agree that individuals have responsibility to ensure they conform to the law in any country they visit. However, we look to the Club for advice. If there was no driving advice in the brochure but a reference to the overseas touring page I would be disappointed but understand that the Club was consistent in it’s approach to offering driving/legal advice.
The reason I am so exercised by this is for reasons of proportionality and relevance.
Tyres are the the only thing between us and eternity when driving. This point is exacerbated in winter.
The brochure is full of much less important and relevant advice than information on tyres. This includes information about the “ludicrous” French “carrying a breathalyser law”, which appears to be a “cosmetic exercise” and carries no penalties. However, something which could save lives and prevent members from falling foul of the law is omitted. No mention that if you have an accident or cause disruption and do not have winter tyres penalties - i.e. penalty points, fines and even prison sentences; can be doubled (e.g. German).
This does appal me.
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Making sure that you comply with the motoring requirements on the continent is a matter of Personal responsibility. ----- I've toured extensively on the continent and have always researched for myself, what requirements I need to take into consideration when visiting different countries. .
Relying on any Commercial Company's advertising literature is in my opinion a real No No.
K
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I'm with you on this Wander birds. No intention of taking a winter tour, unless it's to sunnier climes 😉.
Until I read a few threads on CT I had no idea that tyres weren't the same! When I first read about S&M tyres I my mind ran riot
.If I go into the travel agents to book a holiday they will draw your attention to visa requirements if necessary, I would expect no less from the club with tyre matters. After all having to buy different tyres adds greatly to the cost. Oh have I stumbled on the reason? Cynic moi?
Yes personal responsibilities come into it but if they tell me I need hi vis jackets, triangle, breathalyser and the like I'd think they'd noted everything if there was no mention of tyres it wouldn't cross my radar 😔
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As a proud Yorkshireman I cannot believe I omitted to mention money (t’ brass) in my argument. Whilst I research information about driving requirements in another country before I consider booking I do know other equally responsible members may book and then make sure they know and comply with driving requirements before they go - not unreasonable.
The club warns that you might need to spend a fiver (for a breathalyser) to “legally” visit a site in the brochure but not that it may perhaps cost you over £1000 for new tyres to go to others.
Proportionality and relevance?
Whilst the Club is not responsible for them I think I would like to know of the “hidden costs” of a holiday in a brochure. How about you?
N.B. We have M+S tyres on this and our last van and do tour Germany, Luxembourg etc. in conditions which require them. We have changed our car tyres in Autumn in the UK for over 40 years.
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I suppose there will always be some that would go into a travel agent to book a Winters holiday, and if not mentioned would take open toe sandals, shorts and T shirt.
Where did caravanners learn extension mirrors were a requirement, was it in a holiday brochure?
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I remember the advert,"These are not just tyres, these are M+S tyres"
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Hello JVB66
The references to regulations and speed limits are on pages, 110, 111 and 112. I think you made my point for me. Thank you.
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"Winter Escapes" just opened it, great magazine, dont do much winter touring but am planning another 3 month tour France/Spain come next April, so dont think i will be needing winter tyres et al
this magazine is great for this, sites mapped out all through France & Spain in easy to read maps, bring it on 0 -
here what you are saying ADavid & did just as you suggested last year. Not planning to do much in France so was just looking for handy stop overs for maybe a day or two, our ultimate goal is southern Spain for first part of trip and then back via Barcelona region. I have the ACSI books and card for 2018 & will be getting the 2019 version, plus i have things like Archies POI's on satnav etc so am well prepared thanks to some great advice from members on this forum. We are doing the Poole - Cherbourg crossing mainly because it is short and better suited for the dog, but thanks your continued advice, all tips/info greatly appreciated
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Hi Wanderbirds, I agree with ET, a bit strong and out of order. Try looking into The Clubs “Touring Abroad” books. There is 3 of them covering France, Spain & Portugal and one for the rest of Europe. All the detail you need is in these books. These are the bible of overseas touring. I would say you are quick to mouth off and a bit short sighted at doing your research. Does The Club need to duplicate everything?
BillC
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Just been reading the October edition of the Camping and Caravanning Club magazine. Apparently the "winter tyre regulations" in Germany have changed this year. Winter legal tyres must be winter rated and tested and have the Mountain and Snowflake symbol. Previously acceptable mud and snow tyres marked M+S will no longer be OK. This is being phased in for tyres manufactured from the beginning of 2018. Tyres currently in the system are OK at the moment. Given that there are currently no winter rated motorhome/camping tyres being manufactured by anyone buying legal tyres for motorhoming in a German winter might mean we need to go down the commercial vehicle tyre route.
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