Oh no not weights again - surely not
I have been wrestling with the thorny subject of weights recently and after 30 years of caravanning without ever checking anything I am now evangelical. I have following a trip to a weighbridge an accurate (ish) confirmation of weights. My MPTLM is under control, my noseweight is achievable by careful placing of items and following a few test tows I am a happy bunny.........but.
The MTPLM of my van is 1498 , when weighed with practically nothing in the van except bedding it came in at 1560. I have since removed everything I can think of but have no usable payload so over to the car. But the MTPLM is below the limit.
The manufacturer quoted kerbweight for my car was 1490 so not a match ? the actual weight on the weighbridge was 1810 ( including just me as driver) so yes a possible match. However the GVW for the car is 2230. If you add the rest of the family and one slightly rotund spaniel it gives me 2140 so again not much room for payload?
My question to all the experts out there is do you add the noseweight of 75kg to the cars GVW ? and reduce the payload to a flask and a packet of quavers ?
It was a lot easier when I wasn't a responsible member of the community and towed thousands of miles in unsuitable vehicles.
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It matters not what the all up weight of your car is. It is the stated/plated kerb weight that matters along with the manufacturers stated max towing capacity and the plated gross train weight.
In the interests of safety, it’s recommended that you aim to tow at about 85% of your car's kerb weight. 1490 x 85% = 1267, hmm!
To exceed the manufacturer's stated max towing weight, or the GTW, puts you in trouble with Johnny Law.
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The manufacturers quoted kerbweights are generic and not model/variant specific so are not useable.I am waiting on the dealer to confirm where the plate is on the car as one is not evident (they couldn't find one when it was delivered) The towing capacity is 1800 so no issue , my question is does the noseweight come off the GVW ?
85&% is a recommendation as others have said and to quote the club experienced towers can go to 100%. Kerbweight by the way doesn't include me at 106kg so to use your figures 1490+106=1596 which is 93%. There are stats stats and ........
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I can’t answer your question re nose weight but neither can I see the relevance of it.
I did say 85% is a recommendation but it depends very much on the car and other factors whether it’s sensible to exceed that. Does the kerb weight not include the standard 75kg for a driver?
Yes, stats, stats and common sense.
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Your dead right Tinwheeler I would never knowingly tow a dangerous outfit which is why Im determined to nail this down. I did confirm with Peugeot that the kerb weight doesn't include fuel or driver , the mass in service includes 90% fuel tank and 75kg for the driver and the club confirmed its sensible to include passengers and luggage in your calculations.
as stated by Practical caravan
Mass in Service includes 75kg for the driver which kerbweight does not do. Kerbweight is no longer a term that has any relevance in the vehicle industry, but it is still referred to by the general public and caravan clubs, etc
The shame is I haven't been 75kg for a long time and I have no usable payload left in the van or car.
As the noseweight is applied to the car I think I will err on the side of caution and include it in my overall Gross Vehicle Weight.
Or get a motorhome and chuck the scales.
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If you get a MH rated at 3500kg these days you likely won’t have the payload to carry the scales!
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No brainer. I’d tow with the 4x4 every time. 👍🏻
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Who said the road conditions would be favourable and the site mud free?
The Kia sounds a better bet as a towcar in my opinion. You may well disagree.
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yes but what towing towing in the rain, or even snow or ice? Yes you wouldn't set off when it's really snowing but you might get caught out?
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I think as us, the added weight of most 4x4s tends to give a more stable tow ,and as the likes of our Kia are running as front wheel drive under normal conditions, with the drive transfering some of the power to the rear wheels automatically when needed,( 50/50 if locked),then we would not tow with anything else
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Fair enough if you want to be prepared for all possible eventualities. I suppose it's a bit like insurance. Some people want to be covered against everything, others, for economic reasons, are willing to accept the odd minor risk.
Maybe the OP has no intention of towing in winter months and only visits sites with hard standing pitches. In a case like that a 4x4 would be overshooting the mark a bit.
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Blimey , every question brings a question. My fault when I said I have a kia 4x4 what I should have said is I have another vehicle that is considerably heavier than the Peugeot. In fact of the two and having done two longish journeys the Peugeot tows the easier because of its better torque. One of the trips was in the rainy season to Norfolk earlier in the year and the warden specifically asked us 4 x4 people not to try and tow on and off the pitch. They did it with their tractors as the pitches were getting destroyed.
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don't start that again
however... imagine you got your license after 1st January 1997 so you can :
drive a car or van up to 3,500kg maximum authorised mass (MAM) towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM
Do you think if you said to PC Plod:
yes I know the caravan is 800kg but I've got 51 kg on my noseweight so I'm really only towing 749 Kg, so I'm OK, goodbye officer
that would work?
And yes I know you can:
tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined MAM of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg
but the same idea applies, the law would imply you tow the whole weight of your van, not just the weight on the real wheels?
PS note all the question marks
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No, of course the weight of the caravan doesn't change when it's hitched up to the car. It always includes the noseweight.
However, the car, whose GVW also includes the noseweight is only pulling the axle load of the caravan, not its total weight.
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That is interesting as the Peugeot 5008 was on my short list. I dismissed it as dealer told me the highest horse power is only available as a manual.
I was also under the impression that the nose weight was the max that the car suspension would handle and not included in the weight of the car. It's made it very confusing since they changed the way the various weights are named a few years ago.
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You're right. The noseweight is the maximum that the car's suspension would handle, but when the caravan is hitched up to the car the suspension has to handle the full load and that includes the noseweight.
To avoid confusion, the names for the various weights had to change because the definitions changed. Without a name change, one wouldn't know whether it's the old or the new definition that applies. It still happens today when people talk about kerbweight. They quite often use the term, or worse still, unladen weight, when they actually mean mass in service. All three have different meanings.
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I would be very careful taking advice from any car dealers but the Peugeot people don't seem to know anything about towing specifications. In fact when I ordered mine the 180BHP version was only available as an Auto which I didn't want. The "book" Kerbweight given by Peugeot is 1490kg but I eventually got Peugeot to confirm is without driver or fuel and is a generic weight and doesn't take into account model variations. My GT Line is some 200kg heavier when put on a weighbridge without driver and a half tank.. They wrongly quoted me on the towbar limit as well which is at 72KG. So the loaded weight has to be carefully managed to give 5%. Its not an easy Tug to match but I can confirm if you can match a van it tows very well.
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Lutz, you seem pretty experienced with these matters ? When you say
"when the caravan is hitched up to the car the suspension has to handle the full load"
Would we say this is where the GTW comes into play ? ie: the car overall has to be able to pull and support the full GTW obviously spread over the 4 wheels ?
The GTW for the 5008 is 4030kg so a considerable weight at the end of the day.
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