Charging electric cars on Club sites.
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If you were in the market for a new tow vehilcle, would you buy a diesel right now?
We bought a new Audi two weeks ago, and you are right, we didn't choose diesel, we chose the new 1.5 Tfsi Cylinder on demand petrol engine, which virtually matches diesel economy but without the government generated stigma around diesel.
To me, EV's are still for "Early Adopters" and not practical enough for our use.
On boxing day I was looking at my brothers BMW 330 e Hybrid and it was gorgeous.....
But pure EV..?? I still think 10 years before most cars on the road are pure EV....
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Because this is about towing vehicles, a discussion about EVs is a bit limited until they get homologation approval. Hybrids yes, EVs (except for those which can tow and have a truly eye watering price tag) will only be seen on sites as extra cars just now. However the towing bit is being worked on so it won't be long before less expensive tow EVs are available and new discussions will start to emerge.
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I assume that means it’s vehicle ownership by population count rather than by square mile.
I suppose it’s no surprise to find there is a higher ratio of vehicle ownership where public transport provision is abysmal.
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By vehicle it could mean anything on the road rather than just cars and it's per head. Some areas have more cars, we have more "vehicles" that's why I joked about tractors. I'm sure you are right about transport. I don't know how much electric public transport we've got?
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I agree that the bulk of the change will come quicker than 10 years for new vehicles, in that the government together with the media have, whether intended or not, put the frighteners on buying IC powered vehicles.
There is a sense "you will be punished" which is a great shame as there are roles for a mix of technologies, some being far better suited just for their target task.
That will have a mix of two effects, owners hanging in with the old vehicle, so everyone not benefitting from better cleaner IC, or buying into these early attempts at hybrid and full electric drive. With the latter, the purchases will become rapidly obsolete as that technology needs to and most definitely will, improve rapidly. Not exactly helping the environment overall with a lot of short-term viability vehicles being churned out during the early move into the new way.
The club has to and no doubt must be already considering the impact as a new infrastructure will be needed and soon. Site development typically has been on a leisurely timescale, the speed of this new role of having to fuel members vehicles could well catch the club and others out.
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thanks
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you really have got something against charging EVs.
There is no AS WELL AS. What does it matter what ,I you, or anyone uses their electricity on. It is included in the price.
You seem to say in your other posts and this one, that people will take advantage, that somehow even if you can have 16 A or over 3Kw at any one time you should really only use half that or two thirds, any extra over that and you are taking advantage Nonsense in my view. The clubs sets out it's price and one accepts it. The club takes the risk that it has it's sums right and makes a profit. There is no additional cost to be met, it's included in your pitch fee. The 'plan' is already there, it is quite simple you have up to 3Kw to use, use it how you will.
They have set a limit on my usage and I personally will use to that limit to enjoy my time away. If at any time I need the full amount then I will take it, if at other times I don't then that is fine too. Staying at a club site is not a boot camp to be endured and be frugal anymore than staying at a hotel. I have stayed at all inclusive hotels and just recently had an all your could eat meal, in either case I used what I needed to enjoy my time, no more no less. I certainly didn't think oh that's more than my 'fair share' because there isn't a fair share just what the 'terms and conditions' are.
You don't mind (I assume) if I have an extra heater on in the awning all night to keep warm and I don't care hat you use in your outfit. If I want to charge my EV I will, I'll have to cut down on something else but that's my choice
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Cornersteady,
Are you saying that if the Club decide in a few years to increase the pitch fee by, say £5 per night, to pay for the increased use of electricity by a minority ( mainly through EV charging) then you are entirely happy to do so?
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G7, I’ve just read MrC’s post & can confirm He didn’t say what you are asking. I’m surprised you need to ask if you’ve read it🤔
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Kjell, just for balance, i think you are absolutely right...
any EV charging made 'out of hours' will likely be in addition to the current level for 'night time' useage.
charging carried out during the day (when other devices may be in use) might cause those other devices to be switched off, to stay within the 16a limit.
however, it also might not, if there was sufficient spare 16a capacity to make use of.
in this second case, the EV charging is, again, in addition to what is the 'norm'.
if the 'new norm' (club budgetted usage) including EV charging is sufficiently more than the current one, the club will have to do something about it.
some trot out the well worn line...'Ive paid for it, ill do what i like with it'.
this is fine along as the total electricity used is within the Clubs budgetted estimate, upon which certain cost factors must be based....pitch fees for sure.
assuming that the infrastructure would support it (which it cant) are some suggesting that we could all use appliances up to 16a for 24hrs a day and this would not have an effect on club costs...and therefore site fees?
After all we have paid for this level of service
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There seems confusion here between kW and kWh, ie between power and energy.
I doubt anybody has concerns about people taking 16 Amps so having 3.68 kW of power when required, warming a van up or boiling a kettle for most users, neither being power taken at that level for hours on end.
Where the cost issue comes for the club and so ultimately back onto us is the kWhs being taken. Add fuelling vehicles into the service taken then the cost will increase above what it had been. Unless those taking that energy to charge vehicle forgo using the energy as they previously did. It is not some magical extra energy nobody is paying for.
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We are going to Norfolk tomorrow so i have put our c/van out of storage on to a pitch for one night (oops sorry, not, if no w/end now available) back on subject met another member (in storage) who i have known for some years,and we got talking about EVs on sites,He works for one of our local MPs and can tell you some of what is in mind,and it will be Way into the future that full EV infrastructure is available,to enable what the "Headline Announcement" was stating, but Hybrids are accepted as the vehicles for the forseable future,all types,with batteries for urban areas,and they are not expecting charging to be free for the end users of either type away from their home address
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The club has to and no doubt must be already considering the impact as a new infrastructure will be needed and soon. Site development typically has been on a leisurely timescale, the speed of this new role of having to fuel members vehicles could well catch the club and others out.
The CC does not have to provide for EE vehicles until such time as non provision might impact on bookings. That time is certainly several years off at least.
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By using "zapmap" camp site charge points can be found. Although this doesn't indicate any policies.
I would imagine smaller private sites will make their own arrangements. I can't find any details with the C&CC. Is their forum talking about it, maybe a good subject to start, then wait for the official answers?
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It will be interesting to see, I think the first impact will be an increase incidence of bollards and or the site feed dropping out. On a winters evening when users will be taking electrical power for space heating and a growing number are trying to top up their dual fuel hybrids.
Whether that alters booking or only "Ps" off wardens and other members is anybodies guess.
I doubt many sites are fed by services with such minisulce diversity factored in that they can carry much more load than today?
Replacing the members diesel & petrol energy, even in part, by plugging onto the electrical feeds was probably was not thought about some years back when the services were installed.
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well you're estimate may be pie in the sky again there B, sorry, Grant but yes I personally would . The club sets out it prices and one has to decide if you want to pay for it. If not well don't.
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You see I don't think anyone (or mostly anyone) buys an EV or Hybrid to save the planet, more like saving the wallet. That's certainly why I'm thinking of getting a hybrid.
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would it matter? any excuse to bash the club
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Lifted from an article on Out & About Live from March this year....
"The range issue will change over the next three years, with next-generation electric vehicles comfortably able to cover 250+ miles when they hit the market from 2018 onwards. But until then, for domestic touring, a plug-in hybrid is the most practical form of electric vehicle.
But with ready-made charging infrastructures – often in rural areas where it is otherwise hard to find a charging point – both the Caravan Club and the Camping & Caravanning Club are actively exploring the implications and opportunities of a gradual switch to electric power.
Except during peak periods, most campsites have adequate excess charging capacity – although some operators are already pointing out that they may need to start charging extra for electric caravanners to charge their car as well as their ‘van!
Technical manager at the Caravan & Motorhome Club Martin Spencer said: "For electric towcars, the Club's existing mains electrical hook-up infrastructure has the potential to be adapted to provide off-peak (overnight, much of the daytime) vehicle charging.
"It's likely that as electric vehicles become more common, onsite charging would become a paid option with site fees. While the industry needs to address such practical issues, the potential for vehicle charging on Club sites is clear – with more than 25,000 hook-up points, largely in rural areas, the Club is ideally positioned to complement private and public charging points in the future."
And it turns out that when it comes to the engine technology, Martin's also a bit of a fan of electric cars: "Hybrid vehicles are already with us in significant numbers and are likely to be around for a while as a means of achieving improved fuel efficiency and emissions.
"In principle, the performance characteristics of electric vehicles are ideally suited to towing. Electric motors produce their highest torque output from a standstill, making them excellent at getting a heavy towed load moving".
So the Club is (rightly...
) set to charge users of EV's after all....4 -
no and not for a while maybe. But I was just talking about buying an EV/hybrid as (in my case) the runaround
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good post thanks. I don't mind either way and if the club decides to do that I'll support that as well but at present you can charge your car within your pitch fee.
Wonder what the club will do that? I suspect when currant or indeed current, usage affect profits?
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I've had the existing Smart for a year and I've done 12,000 miles. Most of the driving I do is urban driving so the mileage per gallon is a lot less than 50.
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The incentive to switch to EV is the cost saving but as a consequence of this, it also saves the planet.
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Not yet!
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If you are spending £225 on petrol for the Smart that only works out at about 25 miles to the gallon. I think I would get that from my XTrail.🤔
Thinking about the EV does the regenerative braking produce as much as it uses accelerating? If not, I would assume a lot of stop start driving would deplete the battery faster than a long run. Do they produce urban, combined and long run figures, for EV's?
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