Trade Vehicles
Comments
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I have a degree of sympathy for the OP.
This is a fuzzy area - for example would you be happy about a convoy of say 6 commercial-size flatbeds vehicles towing large twin axles coming on to site ? Probably no, because they'd be likely to be travellers with all that implies.
All this has, in the end, to be left to the judgement of the wardens. The difficulties arise when they (whoever that is) turn out to be antisocial. Generally speaking, when that happens ejecting them is difficult (or in some cases impossible!)
It's for this reason that what might be judged as draconian rules, like 'no single-sex groups' or 'no commercials' are used by many site owners. Ask them why they have them and they'll say 'once bitten twice shy'.
Here's an example of a non-CMC site:
"We do not allow Hobby, Buccaneer or Tabbert caravans or
commercial vehicles i.e. transit vans and flat bed vehicles on
site at any time." That's Flamingoland in Yorkshire.As I said initially, this is a fuzzy area, difficult to make hard and fast rules over.
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I thought attitudes like we've seen in this thread were long gone. Apparently not. I despair sometimes.
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"We do not allow Hobby, Buccaneer or Tabbert caravans or
commercial vehicles i.e. transit vans and flat bed vehicles on
site at any time." That's Flamingoland in Yorkshire."Brian, commercial sites can do as they like and aren't answerable to anyone. CAMC is a club with members and wardens have to be left to use their discretion to the benefit of all members.
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The thing is, we are talking about a problem that doesn't exist. Travellers do not usually want or get to use club sites (they have to pay, yes I know stereotyping), wardens do a good job and probably can easily tell what looks like a genuine touring group looks like as opposed to travellers, Also I they have the authority to turn away(and spot) 6 commercial-size flatbeds vehicles towing large twin axle, even if they are members.
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With the widespread use of the Internet for business purposes how would the club be able to control that the chap sitting in the deckchair and sipping on a glass wasn't using a VPN back to the Stock Exchange, or Threadneedle Street, or LLoyds of London?
Ah - but they do!! We have stumbled on the reason the wifi network is so uslessly terrible on most sites.
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I assume you mean the first sentence of the third paragraph.
If so, yes, I'm agreeing that wardens should have the discretion to run their sites. I was making the distinction between the club and the somewhat alien outlook of some commercial sites in that the club caters mainly for members who should be treated equally.
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Yes, 3rd para was what I meant
The point I was trying to make is that a totally laissez faire approach would cause all sorts of problems. The question / subject for debate is where the line is drawn.
And it's all complicated by the fact that antisocial types tend to be difficult to move on. WHich means that those who have the responsibility to make a decision (CMC or other) tend to be somewhat conservative in their approach ...
On a slighty different issue, I for one view the CMC as being just as commercial as the non-CMC/C&CC sites - it's just that they have a slightly different business model
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Some very naive posting on here.
Four blokes in a sign-written van may just be a family on holiday? I think not.
Power washing their tools wouldn't be allowed on a Club site? You think?
The 'campers' referred to by the op were clearly a group of workmen. They would have paid one membership fee between the four of them to gain access to Club sites.
Many B&B's won't allow such groups, because they realise that such groups enjoy nothing better than a lot of beer to pass the time away from home, with the inevitable outcome when returning to site.
I have worked in construction all my life and I know what happens.
This has nothing to do with a family / couple using a sign-written vehicle that is their only form of transport......it is about groups of men using sites for which they weren't intended.
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Ian, last night I completely disagreed with you, and tonight I totally agree with you....!!
There appear to be some people on here who are, or are trying to be very liberal, personally I don't want to pitch up next to 4 builders in a van, if other people do then I understand your local council may operate a number of sites for you......
And I do appreciate that they all might be deeply religious, charity donating chaps tucked up in bed by 10pm with no noise at all.....
or you could just get real ...........
Personally, I would like the club to maintain a degree of decorum about the sites. If anyone feel differently that's up to you, but don't pretend it's how all members feel, you only have to read the reviews of Wyatts Covert Club Site to see that.....
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Why would workmen who I assume either pay for their 'lodging' themselves or get the firm to pay choose a club site?
a) if they pay themselves, even with the membership 'discount' aren't there cheaper places to stay? (you alway say club sites are so expensive)
b) if the firm is paying why not choose a better site? or why indeed choose to stay four in a caravan.
Sorry Ian but you don't know who or what they are, or how they will behave. Just because you have associated with such types in your working life before it doesn't mean these are they same, and you shouldn't really discriminate on sex alone these days anyway. How insulting.
the club cannot turn them away based on same sex no matter how small or big the group. Imagine the national papers having a fun day with that when the club ends up in court.
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what legal grounds would the club have for not allowing them into the site?
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Corners, in the real world (not the comfortable world that you and I inhabited, where hotel bills for nice hotels and meals out were reimbursed in full) construction workers might possibly get a fixed amount per night away (usually less than the cost of a grotty B&B) or often nothing at all, for working away.
So saving costs (or making a couple of quid on the lodgings allowance) is just a way of bolstering the wages of construction workers. Or of paying for the beers.
Real life.
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Corners,
I suspect that the outfit wasn't breaking any of the current club rules which is no doubt why it was allowed on.......
But the issue of groups of workmen on a site rears it's head at Wyatts Covert, I only know that because we were thinking of a London break and read the site reviews and that put us off.......
Clearly there are members that feel that extreme examples as quoted by the OP are uncomfortable, perhaps the club needs something in the rules in this regard. As has already been said it is a fuzzy grey area with no obvious demarcation of what is acceptable, but that doesn't mean that every member thinks anyone and everyone in any kind of outfit should be allowed on site, cos it's obvious that not everyone does......
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The OP talks about the slipping of standards by letting commercial vehicles on site. If the occupants are what offends them perhaps they could clarify that instead of lumping all drivers of commercial vehicles together as being somehow unsuitable to be on a club site.
We commercial owners face enough petty prejudice already. No need for it to be encouraged further
I'll remember this thread next time we get requests to tow people out of their muddy pitches
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I'll remember this thread next time we get requests to tow people out of their muddy pitches
Flipping heck, that will start the debate about booking hardstandings again......
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I agree, the rule should never have been changed, This mamby pamby anything goes liberal attitude is not doing the club or its members any favours in the long run and the wardens are now frightened to turn anyone away in case of repercussions.
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My eyes have been opened by this thread. I never realised we had so many people with die-hard, old fashioned, intolerant views in this club. The word bigotry isn't far from my lips.
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You are entitled to form any opinion you like, and by reading the thread you now realise someone else may have a different opinion to you.....
Such is life....
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I have no objections to commercial vehicle types on site, sign writing or not. What I would like is that those staying on Club sites are there for 'holidaying' purposes not as a base whilst working. That includes white and blue collar jobs, using the old terminology 😉. It seems that you would be unable to stop users writing a book, marking or using computers etc to work whilst on their pitch so you have a hurdle there. BUT we have stayed on sites both CC and commercial where the occupants clearly use their van as a base to stay whilst working. It means there are early starts or late arrivals which can be very distributing and the atmosphere on site is different when a large percentage of the vans fit this description. Personally we are away to relax and hope that's what others are doing, on or off site. In some ways it's like being on a cruise and the crew have adjacent rooms to the holidaymakers. Neither is any less than the other but at that point in time maybe they should be separate? It is hard to tour these days and could this be one of the reasons?
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Perhaps when new members like myself join, the online application should should take in to account how old your caravan is, what you tow with and how many dogs you have.
At least then if we didn't fit the membership model we wouldn't be allowed to join?
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I come away to relax and enjoy myself. I take pride in trying my best not to upset spoil anyone's holiday. In return I expect the same.
I have no problem what someone else is driving, how old there caravan or Motorhome is or what they do as long as the respect other users. I don't even care what they do for a living .
They pay their fees, like I do and that's fine by me.
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