Weights and the law
Our driving licenses only allow us to tow a combined weight of 3500kg. The fully laden weight of our caravan is 1400kg BUT we never fill it to tow, we only carry basic kitchen equipment, water roll, waste tank and a couple of camping chairs (no clothing, bedding or food/drink etc).
So in theory we have 2100kg for the gross weight of the car.
I get to change my car this year so have been looking at options, but the best options seem to be coming in slightly over at 2180kg.
My question is, if for any reason, someone decided to check our total weight, would they purely look at the figures (2180+1400 = illegal), or would they actually weigh us? There would only be 2 of us plus the dog in the car, with our luggage etc, so i'm sure we'd never actually be over the 3500kg.
Any advice gratefully received!
Comments
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It's my belief that the towing vehicle has to be no more than 3500kg. You can then tow whatever weight that vehicle is allowed to tow in law.
There used to be useful info on driving licences on this forum. Alas, no more.
To be sure, check the DVLA website yourself rather than relying on what others say.
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A new-ish driver used to be able to tow a 750kg trailer with a 3500kg vehicle, but I'm sure that has also been revised such that the combined weight can be no more than 3500kg and the trailer can not be heavier than the tow vehicle .... as Norris said.
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My apology, I believe I have misinformed you. I think MM is correct.
All the more reason to check it with DVLA if unsure.
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Just click on Advice and Training at the top of this page. There is a whole section there on driving licences.
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Thanks for replies.
It's not really the weight that's in question, we know that our combined allowed total is 3500kg. We just wondered how / who would check if we went over that limit.
On paper we would be over if we go for the bigger car, but in reality i'm quite sure that we wouldn't be.
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I'm looking at SUV types. As our caravan is quite heavy at 1400kg we really need the car to be as heavy as we can get away with to help with stability.
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As far as I am aware the police will only look up the rated weights as listed my the manufacturers rather than attempt to pick up all the pieces and weight them.
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As to who would check you - VOSA and the police set up road checks on a regular basis. If you ever travel into North Wales on the A55 you will have a chance of encountering these checks. Want to take the chance of having your car seized the prosecuted by the police for no driving licence?
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Why not take the B+E test then there'd be no worries?
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Probably the only way to be sure of your total weight is to take the combination to a weighbridge and check it. The problem then is it is too late if you have bought the car. You could try to weigh the fully loaded caravan and see what you are towing before deciding what to buy but you rarely carry exactly the same things twice so make sure it is carrying the maximum amount.
If you go ahead I would always travel with the water tank empty as water is very heavy and could take you over the limit.
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if its the plated weights that are checked.....and im sure this is what would happen, it makes no difference as you are 'overweight' for your allowed license groups.
if they actually suspected you were physically overweight on either the car or caravan, then they would weight them...but thats a different 'offence'
if you dont have the license to drive more that 3500 combined plated weights, you shouldnt be considering doing this....
no different than me jumping into a HGV without passing the appropriate test....
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BB is correct, they will go with the plated weights, so what you are proposing is a non-starter.
1400kg MTPLM is not a particularly heavy van, you do not need a vehicle over 2 tonnes to tow it.
Look rather at the engine power.
Passing the B+E test will extend your choices.
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But then if we go under 2t gross weight we get a warning about the kerb weight / van ratio being high
We should probably have researched weights of cars a bit more before buying the van.
There are a couple of cars that work (Q3, X1) which is fine, I just decided to try and look for a hybrid option today but they all seem to be just a tiny bit too heavy.
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Rather than the Aquaroll,Wastemaster and camping chairs, I would be putting in the van the stuff we use in the van........clothes, bedding and food.....and no doubt a few other things.
To me this makes much more sense!
Load the van to what it can carry, save yourself the hassle of moving things around every time you arrive on a site.
As long as, as MM said, the towcar weighs at least as much as the van, you are legal. If you want to stick to the 85% recommendation, then the kerbweight of the car needs to be around 1650kg minimum.
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Your kerb weight / van ratio is way wrong. The accepted guidance (recommendation) is that the caravan should be 85% of the vehicle kerb weight. For your caravan at 1400kg to maintain that ratio you would need a tow car kerb weight of 1648kg. I don't know how you got the 2100kg weight.
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Text below from .Gov website and key part in italics. Its quite simple really as you just take the max caravan weight from 3500kg and what is left is the MAX GROSS weight of the towcar-so using OP figures he can have a car up to 2100 MAX gross vehicle weight.
The actual weights are not the key but the GROSS figure quoted by the car and caravan makers. You may be unlikely to be stopped but it would be very easy to identify if you were 'illegal'.
"What you can tow
The rules on what you can tow are different depending on when you passed your driving test.View your driving licence information to see if you’re allowed to tow.
Licences issued from 1 January 1997
If you passed your car driving test on or after 1 January 1997 you can:drive a car or van up to 3,500kg maximum authorised mass (MAM) towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM
tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined MAM of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg
MAM is the limit on how much the vehicle can weigh when it’s loaded.
You have to pass the car and trailer driving test if you want to tow anything heavier."0 -
Being caught probably is a low risk, though IMO an unwise risk, by far the bigger risk comes should you, for whatever reason be involved in some accident.
Then I can see depending on the circumstances interest could be shown in your licence entitlements.
I am sure your insurer at the least will not be keen to pick up your own losses and others might take you to the cleaners.
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There are plenty of cars made by just about every manufacturer which will match your caravan and give you a legal outfit. Not just legal but, quite nice!
Start with the gross weight limit of just inside 2100Kg and you will see some nice medium sized 4x4's, 2wd hatch backs, etc. Don't worry too much about the guidance of MTPLM = no more than 85% of car kerb weight, because that's not a legal requirement and some cars are easily capable of much better than that. Lots of people tow with near 100% ratio, and if its the right type of car its fine. Example Nissan Quashqai Gross weights under 2100 easily capable of towing your 1400Kg caravan. I like the Skoda Yeti and there's a 4x4 with the 2.0 TDi engine which will easily tow your caravan anywhere. If you are buying a second hand car, always check the maximum gross and towing limit shown on the plate on the B post. This is the legal limit which the authorities would check.
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Just a word of caution, whilst driving along the M1 A police car overtook me and escorted us to a mobile weigh bridge they had set up at the service station. Luckily I was just under and he kindly sent us on our way with a print out of all axial weights etc. There were other cars with caravans and motorcaravans there either already weighed or waiting to be weighed. I didn't hang about to ask questions but I learnt a valuable lesson on such issues.
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Only the plated weight count as far as driving licence entitlement is concerned , so if the police were actually weighing vehicles they would only be checking whether they were overloaded or not and not whether the driver's licence was in order.
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Sorry but being too free and easy with the weights is not good practice. As someone who had to investigate accidents for an insurer the only cars I came across with caravans in tow where the driver had lost control were oVer or near the 100% mark. I do accept that it is possible to safely exceed the 85% figure with many tow cars but all outfits are different and a good match with one caravan may not be a good one for another make even of similar weight.
Frankly anyone advising that a driver takes the caravan anywhere near the 100% mark is not doing them a favour and could be signing their death warrant. You may only find out if a match is poor when it is too late and an outfit that seems to behave well may not do so when an emergency occurs.
You would probably manage with the Quashqai or Yeti but you have to be aware of their limitations and personally I would want something a little heavier.
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Who's being free and easy? You have very nearly said the same as I did. I said "if it's the right type of car". I gave examples Quashqai and Yeti which in both cases are quite sensible match for the caravan concerned, assuming the right specification of the vehicle is chosen by checking the plated weights. You also accept that these examples are acceptable.
Don't forget that the op is looking for a legal outfit for a b licence, so your advice to go for "something heavier" would presumably exceed the 2,100Kg Gross vehicle weight within the legal limit for the outfit.
Since the op was looking for help, it might be good of you to nominate some examples of suitable cars.
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I am trying to work out what you are trying to say. If the plated weights of car and caravan combined to not add up to more than 3500kg then you'd be alright on a Category B licence and if the actual weights don't exceed each plated weight, you'd be OK, too, and that has nothing to do with your licence, so why would property be confiscated or anyone be facing a ban?
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This topic is getting too complex for me
. The rules are quite simple and explained clearly in the 'Advice and Training' Section which you can get to at the top of the page so I am not going to repeat them except to say that they state the Maximum Authorised Weights (as shown on the plate/V5) not the laden weight Break the law and you risk being fined and probably having no insurance for either car or caravan or motorhome; so that would be more points! 0
