Is it my imagination or .........
It might well be my imagination but I have gained the impression in recent months that there are many new owners seeking advice on our hobby that are setting out for their first adventures in lighter cars than there used to be?
Let me say without any reservation that it is great to see many new young families taking up our passtime and they are very welcome indeed. We should help and assist whenever we are called upon to do so.
My concern is this. I believe that in recent years cars have constantly got lighter and lighter mainly in an effort to reduce weight in order to facilitate lower carbon emmisions etc. Smaller but more powerful engines etc. But I am sure that in many cases
the kerb weights are significantly lower than they used to be.
But at the same time caravans have tended to remain about the same or slightly higher due to the extensive kit carried today to make our lives more comfortable.
Additionally new caravanners do not tend to start with new vans, they buy older & perhaps heavier vans.
So with respect to those who love to argue every point, this is my concern, that we as experienced caravanners need to be aware of this problem, and to be at pains to just point that out when we are asked.
Safety is everyone's responsibility!
TF
Comments
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Isn't it the responsability of those selling caravans to ensure that the new owners have a vehicle suitable to tow that caravan. I guess if new owners are purchasing privately that won't be the case but believed that was the situation when buying from a
reputable dealer.0 -
I've mentioned this before on here.
A mate of mine had his caravan on seasonal pitches for many years. His dad towed it there and back, and so did I on a couple of occasions.
He eventually sold it. Shortly after he bought a 1-series BMW and remarked to me that he now wished that he'd kept the caravan, because he could have 'easily towed it' with this new car "because it has 1.6 litre engine".
I did point out to him that his caravan was actually heavier than the car.......I think he listened.
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Both car dealers and cvan dealers tell porkies. We've heard some frightening tales recently. Dealers are only interested in making a sale as far as I can see.
I think there's another thread running somewhere on this topic.
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I have only been caravanning for 3 years and I recall not having a clue about weights of vehicles and towing weights, I didn't even know there were limits to towing.
Nothing was explained to me when I bought our second hand caravan from the dealers and it was pure luck that I had a Discovery at the time.
it was only when I when i joined the Caravan Club prior to our first holiday and reading the various topics that I realised I needed to look in to this.
When we bought our new caravan this year I checked our car and caravan usping the outfit match on the clubs site.
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This is so true! When we bought our first (and current, old, 1700 kg) van we had no idea what it weighed, we just thought it was well appointed: oh look! Lovely solid oak!
. We had a Freelander at the time and thought it would pull anything. Although the van and car were within acceptable limits as
an outfit, OH is experienced with farm vehicles and towing trailers and didn't like the feeling of the caravan being 'in charge' downhill or when stopping, and we traded up to a Disco quick smart.0 -
Cars are getting lighter but bigger (have you noted the size of our old family cars) and that is the problems that face as posted elsewhere that we in the uk want all the bells and whistles in our c/vans,but tow with cheap road fund licence car
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Cars are certainly getting lighter. I sometimes feel that caravan manufacturers are at a bit of a loss as to how to make caravans any lighter, especially as the caravanner tends to like all the 'mod cons' that are on offer. It will be interesting to see
how this develops. Perhaps in the long term future we will be looking at a more flexible system for hiring static caravans on sites. My gut instinct says that cars will get even lighter in the future making towing caravans more of rare sight on our roads.
Probably not in my lifetime though.David
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Tiger fish is quite correct in what He says . However ask a car dealer what a car will tow and yes I have heard them tell porkies lol . Regards caravan sales , We bought a 2 berth starter caravan and the dealer asked what car We had and He checked the weights
etc also when We bought our new van the dealer asked what car would We be towing it with ? In our experience the Caravan dealers have shown a duty of care regarding van and car matching which is good .Paul
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My gut instinct says that cars will get even lighter in the future making towing caravans more of rare sight on our roads. Probably not in my lifetime though.
David
Are you sure. Given that the VED system is to change next year, there will be less incentive for manufacturers to slavishly follow the emissions as all cars will end up with the same tax level AIUI. In the great scheme of things it is, of course, only one
factor in running costs.0 -
Just done a quick bit of research. Back in the early sixties the Ford Zephyr, a typical towcar of the time, weighed 1200Kg and had a 68BHP engine. Who knows what noseweights and towing ratios were back then.
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As CY suggests, cars have actually been getting heavier & heavier over the years, eg the original Golf weighs little more than my Smart car does. Each time a manufacture upgrades a model, it tends to get that bit bigger. In part due to we all want electric
this that & the other and also due to added crash bars eg side impact bars in doors. It's only in the very recent years that manufacturers have started to shave weight eg Jag using ally for body panels0 -
Crickey CY, that was even before my time! I passed my test in March 1962 and although I often drove Zephyr's and Zodiacs then (I was in the motor trade then) I dont recall seeing many caravans about!
My comments were about more more modern times. I haven't researched, but I wonder what a Merc E class estate weighs today compared with that of one 8 years ago?
The same applies to any other make. Todays Mondeo compared to an early one? The car is much bigger but the weight? I don't know, but I'm sure you know what I mean.
Its easy to make a negative comparison with several decades ago but I was really asking, - Are todays cars lighter than those of say 5-10 years ago?
TF
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When we bought our first caravan in the mid 1970 s nobody mentioned weights at all. The rule of thumb if I remember right was that you needed 100cc of engine capacity for every hundredweight so our Mark1 Golf seemed ok to pull our Sprite 400 weighing 10
cwts. It did seem to pull ok and the outfit was stable. I think the car had a 1100cc engine.0 -
Latest E Class Estate 1760 - 1955Kg
2008 model 1785Kg, so depending on model a bit heavier. Probably due to all the new electronic gizmos like self-emptying ashtrays etc or whatever they put in them.
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The Skoda dealer in Lincoln assured me the Fabia was fine for my caravan which wasn't true. The engine was fine but it was far too light and very unstable to tow. I quickly swapped to an Octavia luckily neither were new so didn't lose out that much. PS I am even happier with the Outlander.
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Putting aside what car saleman and caravan sellers say surely a certain amount of common sense has to prevail here.From when i started towing 37 years ago i was never under any illusion about the type of car that was needed.The heaviest and most poweful i could afford too run.Its a philosophy that has never let me down.Either some people are getting very bad advice i.e from salesmen or not getting any advice at all.
v9
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Putting aside what car saleman and caravan sellers say surely a certain amount of common sense has to prevail here.From when i started towing 37 years ago i was never under any illusion about the type of car that was needed.The heaviest and most poweful
i could afford too run.Its a philosophy that has never let me down.Either some people are getting very bad advice i.e form salesmen or not getting any advice at all.v9
...Then you only have to read what some of the poster white on here to wonder?
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Putting aside what car saleman and caravan sellers say surely a certain amount of common sense has to prevail here.From when i started towing 37 years ago i was never under any illusion about the type of car that was needed.The heaviest and most poweful
i could afford too run.Its a philosophy that has never let me down.Either some people are getting very bad advice i.e from salesmen or not getting any advice at all.v9
We have been doing this great hobby for a similar amout of time and I too was told very forcibly that if I wanted to be an old caravannner then get a big car and a small caravan.
It's only in the last few years that I have got an up market caravan because i was stuck to company cars that did not have the weight to tow what I realy wanted so I had mid level caravans at best. It had nothing to do with money, just what I could safely
tow.0 -
This is it for me it has to be a towcar that will not just do the job but do it at a stroll.There is nothing good about flogging an engine and equally the stability issue has to be addressed sensibly at all speeds and weather conditions.If i have to overtake
on the motorway i want a towcar that will do it within a short time so i,m back in lane one asap with very little fuss.v9
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I think the problem arises mainly from car salemen who do not understand salesmen and caravan salesmen wanting to sell.
Most cars have a towing limit above the kerb weight and the salesman very rarely has any towing knowledge. In the event of someone asking if it will tow a certian weight most simply look up the towing limit and quote it. The fact that it is far too high
for a caravan may simply not occur to them but they are on a bonus so that may affect their thinking.Caravan dealers also get asked if the buyers car is in order for the job. There seems to be mixed answers on this. Some seem to quote sensible advice but others looking at their bonus give advice that can be at best suspect lile "It should cope" which means
it can just manage or it is realy too light.It is how ever the responsibility of the driver to have a safe outfit although negligent advice from a dealer may make them liable.
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When buying our current van from Catterick Caravans, the sales lady asked for the make & model of our car, entered the details into her computor & confirmed that it was a match for the caravan. I could have told her that anyway, but it was good to see that
some dealers are checking.0 -
When buying our current van from Catterick Caravans, the sales lady asked for the make & model of our car, entered the details into her computor & confirmed that it was a match for the caravan. I could have told her that anyway, but it was good to see that
some dealers are checking.Nice to know that some dealers are honest about weights.
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Unless they use the Tow (?) car checker website.
Recently seen a read out that just spits out the max towing weight from the manufacturer.
Potentially dangerous.
As always, make sure you know more than the salesman before you even enter the premises.
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Wait until they are all electric .
A passing phase (phase, geddit?
)Fuel cell cars are coming
They have for a while but I doubt that the majority of current members will be around whenever they become the norm.
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Wait until they are all electric .
A passing phase (phase, geddit?
)Fuel cell cars are coming
Fuel cell cars are electric !
The fuel cell merely replaces a conventional battery, or more likely, will charge a smaller lithium battery, which will in turn power the electric motors.
The main advantage being range, partly derived from the reduced weight over conventional Lithium batteries. So they will be even less likely to be appropriate tow cars.
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