2017 Swift
Comments
-
That's not what I'm saying at all. Wood is an organic substance - and wood loves to soak up water if it has access to it.
Take a wooden chopping block - dry of course, and tip a cup of water on it and leave it a few hours, there'll be no sign of the water outwardly later on; now heat the block with a hair dryer and as it warms you'll see the steam come off as it releases the
moisture back into the atmosphere - from an outward appearing dry piece of wood; exactly what can happen to any construction involving wood that gets hot and cold, even dry seasoned wood will do it to a certain degree.I do know about damp wood. I've built and owned a fair few boats. Residual moisture content in wood encased in an impermeable laminate will not suck in more unless there is a hole to let it in. It all comes down to poor build quality.
0 -
i dont necessarily think the use of non wood in most vans has made their ability to keep water out any better...
it just means that the water that gets in, does less long term damage....ie the impact is less.
im sure i read something along these lines on SwiftTalk when the Smart build was introduced a couple of seasons ago...
That was my understanding of it - they have given up on trying to keep the wet out, so now they build everything from plastics, so that it won't rot when the damp does get in.
I guess it's better than the caravan rotting away (or needing repairs that take months to have carried out) but still......
0 -
I find all this very depressing. Swift, Bailey, Coachman etc have all been building caravans long enough to know how to do it properly so why all these problems? They all seem to turn out too high a percentage of badly made caravans.
I am told the overseas made caravans are better built but are they or are there just so few in the UK for people to have issues and then post on forums?
0 -
I find all this very depressing. Swift, Bailey, Coachman etc have all been building caravans long enough to know how to do it properly so why all these problems? They all seem to turn out too high a percentage of badly made caravans.
I am told the overseas made caravans are better built but are they or are there just so few in the UK for people to have issues and then post on forums?
What type of vans do you see touring round europe for the long termers...?
just look at the 20 yr old plus Hymer MH that are folk's houses.
see the rows of Fendts, Knaus and Hobbys being used as long stay full season vans....
ok, uk vans arent (generally) available 'over there' but these are the popular brands, which are now moving in the UK MH market with a serious push.....
if i was going to be a full timer in a MH or caravan, id certainly not be looking at the latest Bailey, Swift, Elddis etc...they just arent tough enough, too many reports of damp....not something you want to hear for a van being used in our (UK) climate
0 -
.
I am told the overseas made caravans are better built but are they or are there just so few in the UK for people to have issues and then post on forums?
In my opinion yes. For example. Shock absorbers, electrics all run in conduit so hidden, waste water through traps, multistage smart charger, All hot air pipes run internally, fully bonded walk on roof. Etc, etc etc
The above is not a description of our latest van, but of our 2001 entry level Hymer swing. Are they perfect no but as it is money that we are spending.
We exercise our choice by spending on what we believe gives us best value for money. Other people may have different views and that is fine.
0 -
Some of the reports you see on this forum are just terrible.
My own 'van is 3 years old (a Bailey) and I not had anything at all go wrong at all but I am intending to chop it for a new one at 5 years old and I am wondering if I have a "good un" to keep it longer.
I find it shocking business practise that these manufacturers don't sort this quality problem out. They have all been making Caravans long enough to know how.
Or, is that the problem, they want them to fall apart so punters buy a new one?
0 -
My own 'van is 3 years old (a Bailey) and I not had anything at all go wrong at all ....
So you got the good one that year
What's the logic behind planning to trade it in at 5 years if there's nothing wrong? Not wanting to buy new tyres?
0 -
I think there is no such thing as a British made or continental in made van. British assembled or continental yes made no.
For example my German Hymer
Chasis. Alko Germany
Toilet Thetford Netherlands
Fridge Dometic Germany/ Sweden
Door gas locker. Hartal Germany
Heating Alde Sweden
Windows Polyplastic ? Netherlands
cooker Thetford aspire Netherlands
A list of parts suppliers for my foreign van that I would suggest is not greatly different to the list of parts used by a British maker. The country of origin are best guesses by the way but look in any couple caravan of different makes and essentially you
will see the same parts over and over again. So in truth quality difference come down to installation, perception and luck.0 -
Mainland Europe made vans have problems as well as UK as stated by Boff they are all fitted with the same equipment,and they all have problems,it is only that as the vast majority of us who post on here have UK biult vans there is a perception of more problems, we were next to a German family a couple of yeas ago wth a Hymer m/van that had been back to their dealers 3 times with bits falling off and "damp"and was going in again on their return, they were more than impressed with our Bailey, so it is as proved, people complain rather than the silent majority of satisfied owners
0 -
Mainland Europe made vans have problems as well as UK as stated by Boff they are all fitted with the same equipment,and they all have problems,it is only that as the vast majority of us who post on here have UK biult vans there is a perception of more problems,
we were next to a German family a couple of yeas ago wth a Hymer m/van that had been back to their dealers 3 times with bits falling off and "damp"and was going in again on their return, they were more than impressed with our Bailey, so it is as proved, people
complain rather than the silent majority of satisfied ownersI guess you are lucky enough then to own a Bailey where the outter aluminium skin isn't so thin it was vulnerable to stone chips and they had to "fix" it with sticky back plastic panels or perhaps you didn't happen to have one with front gas locker that
ment sensible nose weights weren't achievable, the moving of the locker wasn't an improvement it was a response to a specific problem. A problem that should have been recognised on the first prototype.And as for payloads don't get me started not sure a typical payload for a "British" van needs to be filed under fantasy, comedy or tragedy.
0 -
Mainland Europe made vans have problems as well as UK as stated by Boff they are all fitted with the same equipment,and they all have problems,it is only that as the vast majority of us who post on here have UK biult vans there is a perception of more problems,
we were next to a German family a couple of yeas ago wth a Hymer m/van that had been back to their dealers 3 times with bits falling off and "damp"and was going in again on their return, they were more than impressed with our Bailey, so it is as proved, people
complain rather than the silent majority of satisfied ownersI guess you are lucky enough then to own a Bailey where the outter aluminium skin isn't so thin it was vulnerable to stone chips and they had to "fix" it with sticky back plastic panels or perhaps you didn't happen to have one with front gas locker that
ment sensible nose weights weren't achievable, the moving of the locker wasn't an improvement it was a response to a specific problem. A problem that should have been recognised on the first prototype.And as for payloads don't get me started not sure a typical payload for a "British" van needs to be filed under fantasy, comedy or tragedy.
.If UK caravan buyers want all the bells and whistles and still tow with a small car then something has to be compromised ,if the "heavy well built?" continental vans were kitted out the same ,it would need a hummer to tow them and since and it has been
nearly ten years since a Bailey had tin sides (,coach man still have) and oposite us is a Lunar who's owner has a problem keeping nose weight below 100kg where our Bailey has an easy 85kg0 -
I am glad your are obviously as happy with your Bailey as we are with our Hymer.
...As i said the few on here who complain about uk build quality, are not representative of the far larger number of satisfied owners, and with your reply now see why it was so, but we met a possible German minority?,
Ps this is our second problem so far free grp bodyed Bailey appart from the not UK made fridge
0 -
I think there is no such thing as a British made or continental in made van. British assembled or continental yes made no.
For example my German Hymer
Chasis. Alko Germany
Toilet Thetford Netherlands
Fridge Dometic Germany/ Sweden
Door gas locker. Hartal Germany
Heating Alde Sweden
Windows Polyplastic ? Netherlands
cooker Thetford aspire Netherlands
A list of parts suppliers for my foreign van that I would suggest is not greatly different to the list of parts used by a British maker. The country of origin are best guesses by the way but look in any couple caravan of different makes and essentially you
will see the same parts over and over again. So in truth quality difference come down to installation, perception and luck....and, of course, design
.....some good, some (like below) not so good...new Bailey Autograph MH reviewed this month...the 75-4
french bed, should have a huge under bed locker space...
no, Bailey chop the space in half, longitudinally, so that you cant get anything of size in it.....anyway, the boiler is set so far back, anything being inserted through the rear access door would hit it....but it doesnt matter, as the exterior hatch is
only about 6" high so you cant get anything in ot even if you tried....what a waste of time....and this by a 'design team' increased many times especially for 2017
it wouldnt be difficult to move the boiler forward (to open up the space, and then put in a really deep hatch to allow far better access to the (now) more accessible space...
it seems that one of Bailey's biggest warrenty issues last year on their MHs was leaking external hatches....their answer, shrink them to the size of a letterbox.....2nd class?
0 -
I am glad your are obviously as happy with your Bailey as we are with our Hymer.
...As i said the few on here who complain about uk build quality, are not representative of the far larger number of satisfied owners, and with your reply now see why it was so, but we met a possible German minority?,
Ps this is our second problem so far free grp bodyed Bailey appart from the not UK made fridge
I had posted what I thought was my last word
However: How can you possibly know what the proportion of satisfied owners is?
And:
What is an acceptable rate of disatisfaction? If 51% of owners are happy and 49% are not, is that acceptable? For each individual owner is binary as it a sample size of 1 they are 100% satisfied or 100% not.
Of course the UK manufacturers produce more vans for the UK market so they are going to have more complaints but a statically valid comparison should possible.
Maybe the CC should have a RELIABILTY survey. I reckon that an organisation that big could get almost 40 000 replies.
But really to effectively dismiss people who have legitimate complaints about the quality of there caravans into which they have invested a lot of their hard earned money, as moaners is to my mind most unfair.
0 -
On a lighter note. Our much praised, we'll be me at least original Hymer Swing. Had two aspects that were outstandingly bad.
1 It was without doubt the ugliest van I have ever seen
2 The dinning area light was a pendant light whose shade was about 14" in diameter you were supposed to take it down every time you moved otherwise it would swing free a get damaged. To make matters worse fitted to it was a 60W 12v light bulb. So that consumed
5amps per hr. This was without doubt the worst design piece of kit i have ever seen fitted to a caravan. Proving if nothing else when the Germans do bad design they do worldclass bad design.0 -
I have not found any of my post that mention moaners ,?I did have the audacity to mention a foreign built van with a disatisf ied owner , but as I think I did mention the few Who complain on here are not reprisentative of the thousands of owners of UK or mainland europe built vehicles ,but hey ho ,any talk of anything negative of anything will have the haves and have nots of a problem
0 -
I am glad your are obviously as happy with your Bailey as we are with our Hymer.
...As i said the few on here who complain about uk build quality, are not representative of the far larger number of satisfied owners, and with your reply now see why it was so, but we met a possible German minority?,
Ps this is our second problem so far free grp bodyed Bailey appart from the not UK made fridge
If you read the PC annual surveys it shows usually that Adria and Sprite do have over 90% satisfied customers. The rest are usually in the mid eighties and are almost interchangable except for Eldiss who come bottom with under 80% satisfaction.
Not sure what level of satisfaction is satisfactory but in general under 90% looks pretty bad to me and there is certainly room for improvement.
0 -
Other than replacing wood with high density foam, the construction method appears to be the same AFAICT. If they are prepared to give a 10 year damp warranty on the new method, why can't they build to the same standard with wood construction? Is it, as I
suspect, they still get damp but don't rot?Write your comments here...2017 caravans are enhanced smart plus.
No wood in the panels, only remaining wood is in the floor.
0 -
I am glad your are obviously as happy with your Bailey as we are with our Hymer.
...As i said the few on here who complain about uk build quality, are not representative of the far larger number of satisfied owners, and with your reply now see why it was so, but we met a possible German minority?,
Ps this is our second problem so far free grp bodyed Bailey appart from the not UK made fridge
If you read the PC annual surveys it shows usually that Adria and Sprite do have over 90% satisfied customers. The rest are usually in the mid eighties and are almost interchangable except for Eldiss who come bottom with under 80% satisfaction.
Not sure what level of satisfaction is satisfactory but in general under 90% looks pretty bad to me and there is certainly room for improvement.
...I can only find a bit about the survey and it says Bailey and Sprite take top gold awards
0 -
Forget foreign caravans.
I like caravans built for British tastes, and would be happy to buy a Swift HT smart model if only they made one that appealed.
Hopfully Bailey will bring out a woodless floor version, but as it is "enhanced smart plus" is very close to Alutech.
Downside is ESP still uses nails to assemble the panel, but then the under floor has a GRP covering which an Alutech doesn't.
0 -
We went to the NEC on Wednesday. We liked both the Lunar Clubman SR and the dealers Swift Sienna Assent which is like the Challenger 560, centre bathroom and island bed. We have put down a deposit but we're going to see them next week to make final decision. The Lunar we like because of the slimline fridge and huge skylight but the Swift wins it with the omnivent, 2 places up front for TV and more plug sockets. Looking forward to Alde heating too.
0
