Leisure Vehicle Survey
I wondered if anyone else had looked at the CC Leisure Vehicle Survey. As a participant I have been awaiting its arrival. A very small column in the recent mag publicised its appearance.
In my opinion its a damming indictment of the industry that a whopping 19% of new caravans had faults. 7% of them with water ingress. the figures were even higher for campervans.
What do others think.
Comments
-
Come on folks....why would the Caravan Club slate the major companies in the industry?
Something about 'biting the hand that feeds'!
It's called business
I am sure that the industry invites the CC high ups to some very nice black tie dinners. But it is the membership that feeds it.
It's called integrity or should be.
0 -
I wondered if anyone else had looked at the CC Leisure Vehicle Survey. As a participant I have been awaiting its arrival. A very small column in the recent mag publicised its appearance.
In my opinion its a damming indictment of the industry that a whopping 19% of new caravans had faults. 7% of them with water ingress. the figures were even higher for campervans.
What do others think.
I quite agree its an industry that has needed to take a long look at its performance for many years now but while its under no pressure to do this then nothing will change and the CC certainly wont do anything to assist the unfortunate "members" that fall
victim to sub standard goods.I,ve said it many times if the caravan makers were selling cars they would have gone out of business years ago.v9.
0 -
Until sufficient members make a lot of 'noise' and turn up at a Club AGM to lobby for a change of direction (ie return to being a members club putting members interests first) nothing will happen. There doesn't appear to be any interest from 'Which' to investigate
the quality issue so that leaves the potential option of forming a new consumer based organisation to lobby for improved quality/safety etc. However in practice how many owners of faulty c/vans would pay an organisation to help improve the product? My guess
is unfortunately not very many. The quality issue will only be addressed if or when a new player enters the market with a proven high quality product at a competitive price. But who has the money for that sort of business investment?!0 -
If the Club decide to do this again my advice to them would be to be more explicit in how the survey results would be reported/presented. In itself I find the Infographic style of presentation quite interesting and as a snap shot of caravan/motorhome ownership quite useful. However I expect many will want a more name and shame style of report which I do question whether that was ever a realistic expectation?
David
0 -
However I expect many will want a more name and shame style of report which I do question whether that was ever a realistic expectation?
David
Why not. Remember the club in the past has published reports naming names Practical caravan magazine publishes an annual survey I understand
What use is this survey? Does it help any member to make an informed choice on where spend their money? No. will it pressure manufacturers to up their game for the benefit of all
NoWhat are the conclusions of the survey. Most people are broadly satisfied, some are not. Some Lv's leak. Did really need a survey to tell us that. I think not.
It seems to me that the club is acting like we are living in the 50's and we should be grateful for what we get. It is not a question of naming and shaming but celebrating the best that the industry has to offer and as I stated earlier allowing the consumer
to make an informed choice on how to spen their money. Is that really too much to ask?0 -
From the Survey
Customer satisfaction with after sales customer care... 51%
This does not say much for the Dealerships. Just goes to show how inportant it is to find a good Dealer. Our Laika has a faulty door switch. It's a broken spring. Southdown Motor Homes are 200 miles away so I asked them if they could put the part in the post. Couple of Emails and the part has arrived ( Under Warantee ) The Swift we had would have to be booked in, photographed, part ordered, waited, re-booked, left for the day, collected only to find out the part would not fit.
I also looked at the Approved Repairer that CC and the other place suggest. I would not go near the three local to me and how come so many have 100% satifaction.
0 -
IMO the Caravan Club lost all credibility when they refused to 'name and shame' in the 'Leisure battery' debacle
Will the CC ever stand up for its members against the manufacturers for the good of the future of the industry? - unfortunately I don't believe they ever will.
0 -
Until sufficient members make a lot of 'noise' and turn up at a Club AGM to lobby for a change of direction (ie return to being a members club putting members interests first) nothing will happen. There doesn't appear to be any interest from 'Which' to investigate
the quality issue so that leaves the potential option of forming a new consumer based organisation to lobby for improved quality/safety etc. However in practice how many owners of faulty c/vans would pay an organisation to help improve the product? My guess
is unfortunately not very many. The quality issue will only be addressed if or when a new player enters the market with a proven high quality product at a competitive price. But who has the money for that sort of business investment?!..the Continental manufacturers, thats who.....
in the MH market, the effort that these players are making into our market has made the home brands sit up and take notice.
even this month, following the arrival of the new Bailey range, the article i was reading suggested that Bailey must have paid close attention to continental kitchen storage design in going for wide opening drawers rather than their more usual (difficult
to reach in the back of....) shelved cupboards....competition will breed better product and the likes of Benimar and now Mobilvetta (both imported by Marquis) along with Fleurette (imported by Webbs) are, with their enhanced specification and no-wood construction are forcing this route with terrific sales.
this has meant that brands like Bailey (as mentioned earlier) and now Swift (with their cracking new Escape model, talking lower end here....) are becoming aware of the threat and have upped their game.
now, this is all happening on the MH side, where position of habitation door and size of oven are (perhaps) taking less importance, with foreign vans selling well...
however, im not a caravanner, but i dont see this sort of kick up the bum coming from any continental caravan makers....
yes, there are a few Adrias around, and at the upper end, the lovely Hymers, but what/who is going to shake the likes of Elddis, Swift, Bailey etc out of this lethargy you all seem to suggest exists in the caravan market?
Hymer has just invested £40m in uprating the Dethleffs factory, two years ago it spent a similar amount on upgrading/expanding the Laika factory.
...soon, these Hymer group factories will be able to produce any product (MH or caravan) from their range of brands...
in the past couple of years, 'cheaper' (but high quality) sub brands have appeared from, Hymer, Dethleffs, Rapido etc which are taking the fight ever harder towards the home market.
however, are caravanners more concerned (place more emphasis) on the caravan door and the oven and weight (though ive never read a post stating a caravanner has actually weighed their van...) than perhaps MHers do?
if not, why arent all you unhappy vanners buying a Fendt, Hobby, Hymer, Dethleffs, Burstner etc, etc?
surely, in the absense of a decent lobby group, the best way to raise awareness in the market place is to spend your hard earned on something different for a change....
0 -
BB I personally agree with your analysis and that's where we have chosen to spend our money ( or placing our bet if you prefer).
But and I think it is big but our choice is driven by gut instinct and personal choice, rather than hard data so for all I really know I might be completely wrong and that is where as far as I am concerned the Caravan club has let us all down
0 -
true, Boff, we all would like to be making informed decisions, especially when spending out on a large ticket item like a caravan or MH....a full and frank 'analysis' might be what we are all looking for but......i doubt it, somehow....
however, there must be a bit of 'the devil you know' in the caravan/MH market as we might be fairly conservative in our purchases and a (slight) reluctance to jump ship?....
i went for a continental vehicle (despite our Swift doing good service for five years) for three main reasons.....layout, quality and value for money...
0 -
Having had english built mhomes autoslleper and autotrail of which we were fairly happy with, when we returned to camping and bought a much older hymer caravan we were pleasantly surprised at the superior quality, workmanship and finishing touches that the
hymer has,
when i change back to a mhome it will be to a hymer cheers mrs bc )0 -
We meet a couple last year who told us they were on their third Bailey Caravan. The wife explained that she hoped that this one would be better than the last two as both had had to be returned to the factory for major problems. The reason he bought a Bailey was that his local Dealer sold them and it was where he stored it
. I think after having to return two to the factory I would not have gone near another one.We are the same as BoleroBoy. Started with a Swift and then realised that the offerings from over the water are far better. They don't come with all the bells and whistles but they are better built. Our Swift had a microwave with square turntable wheels because we were not completely flat ( Service Manager Said ) when we used it. Loads of other issues with it. Laika is far nicer and a lot warmer.
0 -
Reliabilty might only be one factor in the decision making process. To give an example from another industry, you wouldn't neccessarily buy a Ferrari on basis it is the most reliable car on the market other factors might come into play. This could be the
same for caravans and motorhomes. But the information does exist and it is being kept from us.0 -
Tend to agree with all that has been said although we have a Bailey which we bought second hand from a local dealer; it has given us trouble free holidays for a number of years. Like the look of the Feldt caravans though - but the price!
0 -
why arent all you unhappy vanners buying a Fendt, Hobby, Hymer, Dethleffs, Burstner etc, etc?
BB, I think that a major reason is that there are so few distributers of these vans and for those of us that do not go to any of the caravan shows never get the chance of a proper look at these models. To own one many would have to travel quite long
distance to get their van serviced or to have any job done under warrenty.0 -
This is degenerating into the standard continental versus British van argument. I know what side of that I'm on.
But ignore that and let's assume you want to buy British. There are basically 5 British manufacturers in alphabetical order.
Bailey
Coachman
Eldiss
Lunar
Swift
wouldn't you like to know where to invest your money to give you the best chance of getting a goodun, rather than a wrongun?
0 -
If I remember rightly damp was 14% but they do not say who were theroblem companies. This ties in roughly with the PC figure of 12%. We realy needed to know how the makes compare ad without that the report is at best interesting rather than useful. It would
have been far more useful when it comes to buying another caravan to know how the different makes compare.0 -
the thing that will haul the uk caravan industry kicking and screaming into the 21st century will be
a) competition/demand for better products...
b) as has been said, access to sufficient data to get the full reliability/damp picture so that customers can make that informed choice...
'a' is certainly happening at a pace in the uk MH market, despite the same lack of 'b'
will this permeate to the caravan market, dont know...
but with Dethleffs, Hymer, Hobby etc setting up dealerships to cope with better MH sales, surely this would be an avenue to those looking to move away from the cosy caravan group named in Boffs post above..?
the market is customer driven so it will be their demand for better/different products that drives up the bar.....
0 -
Every year we hear the same advertisements from the UK van industry, new graphics, new alloywheels, new sink shape - no, no, no don't spend money on these things spend it in putting proper QA/QC controls in the factory and train your dealers to carry out
PDI checks properly.I for one don't sit outside the van looking at the graphics, which incidentally are coming adrift.
Just another warranty issue!Quality, Quality, Quality should be the watchword and be honest with the long suffering customers.
0 -
I have just realised that the manufacturers I listed above plus adria, were all given space within the "report". To say how useful and thorough the exercise was and thanking the CC. Just one great big happy family. Shame about the punters, sorry a mean
valued customersHonestly it is such a travesty it would make a North Korean blush.
0 -
but with Dethleffs, Hymer, Hobby etc setting up dealerships to cope with better MH sales, surely this would be an avenue to those looking to move away from the cosy caravan group named in Boffs post above..?
...
Most unlikely to happen as far as caravans are concerned in my view. The exception might be Adria but they have been long established in the UK market for years and they build specifically for the UK market. To my knowledge, of the German makes, only Knaus
and perhaps Hymer produce caravans with the door of the UK side. Both are premium brands and quite expensive. Being a traditional market I suspect more would have to follow that lead to really make an impact. As can be seen from the survey the ownnership of
overseas produced caravans is only 3% of the people surveyed, where as with motorhomes the figure is much higher. I suspect European makers will concentrate on motorhomes where there is likely to be substantual growth in the market, I expect at the expense
of the caravan market. Its easy to forget that both Swift and Elddis have fairly successful export markets in Holland and Denmark. As I have said on here before when I was able to buy new caravans we actual had four over the years and none of them caused me
any doubt to their quality and we used to keep them on average about 6 years. So I had no reason to look elsewhere.David
0 -
Hi everyone,
A few of you have asked why the Leisure Vehicle Survey does not ‘give a more detailed analysis’.
Given the scale of the survey and the scope of the results, unfortunately it is not possible to condense the ‘full’ results into a publishable form. The survey, combined with the comprehensiveness of the questionnaire we felt was necessary to truly represent
your views meant we ended up with 7.5million pieces of data.We haven’t published specific faults for specific makes as the variations in fault data between makes are relatively modest – if they weren’t, the overall average satisfaction ratings probably wouldn’t be as high as they are. The issues we identify on pp11-12
apply pretty universally across makes, however, and we think the industry needs to address them collectively.My best advice would be to call our Technical Helpline if you are thinking of buying a new van, and our Technical Advisors will be able to help you through the process.
0
