Caravan parking bays at motorway services
I could not park our car and caravan at a motorway service area today, purely because several of the limited number of long parking bays marked “CARAVANS” were occupied by single (short) motorhomes.
The Club re-branded itself to emphasise the difference between touring caravans (i.e. being towed by a motor vehicle) and motorhomes and to improve its inclusive nature.
Motorhome owners presumably consider their vehicles as caravans, and thus feel entitled to park in bays marked as such. Whilst many smaller motorhomes are capable of being parked in standard car-sized bays, drivers towing tourers face many more difficulties in parking their longer outfits, and genuinely need a long bay that will accommodate the whole outfit, which can approach the length of an HGV.
Perhaps the answer is for service stations to distinguish between touring caravans and motorhomes when marking out their car parking bays? I doubt that driver education would work!
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There’s little can be done about it. It’s also discussed in the following thread and several others over the years.
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I've lost count of the number of times we've tried to park our previous car + caravan and motorhome on a motorway services area and had problems. In our experience, quite a few "white van-man" vans use the Caravan parking areas, parking in such a way that it's impossible even for a small MH to park either in front or behind. And I would say also that about 80% of the time, cars use those parking bays.
I don't think that differentiating between caravan parking and MH parking (even if that were to happen) would make any difference. In a MH, we do follow the signs for Caravans, as that's the nearest equivalent. In reality though, we tend to end up sandwiched between HGVs, as the number of caravan bays are very limited and for the reasons in my first paragraph.
"Over there" service areas tend to be much bigger, with much more room for caravans and MHs, but in the UK it's very much hit and miss as to whether you can bag that parking space when you feel you need to have a break.
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Basically the site operators do not care about caravans or motorhomes. They add the spaces as they have to but that is it. As customers we are possibly the least profitable as we need lots of space, usually bring our own food and spend nothing although we may use the toilets.
Private cars tend to use the services for food and take up less room in the car park. Coaches bring lots of customers and lorries are regulars, so are all far more profitable, so why should they bother with us.
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Motorhomes are classed as motorcaravans. My van is 6.4 m long. I park in that part indicated by the caravan symbol. I try and park either at the front or rear of a long bay. I can’t park in a normal car park space. But even vans that can need space to get out of the space. Turns in car parks are often just too tight. The real issue is insufficient space and insufficient signage.
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This is spot on. Only small campers and some smaller PVCs can realistically use the car park (or, indeed, should use the car park). As a motorhomer for 36 years I only ever used the caravan bays and, if these were full, as was often the case, I had to be prepared to use the HGV area. This is the same for all of us whether motorhomers or caravanners.
This has come up many times before. I recall a thread where a pedantic OP insisted that caravans had to be taken literally to mean only touring caravans. That is palpably ridiculous. When I had my first motorhome, it never even occurred to me that the caravan bays did not also embrace the motorised caravan. Indeed I assumed that the car park was absolutely out of bounds, although I remember another thread where someone had clarified with Moto (I think) that smaller vans can use the car park if space is available.
As HJA rightly writes, so many car parks in services are much too tight to park anything other than a tiny camper van.
If the caravan bays are full, the only thing for it is the HGV park. I didn't like that any more than any one else, but it is a case of needs must. Too many services simply do not have enough space for caravans and motorised caravans.
Another problem, again as pointed out above, is HGVs and other commercials using the caravan bays. Donington, J23a/24 of the M1, is arguably the very worst case of this as I know only too well. In the picture below, the spaces in the foreground are for coaches. The spaces in the background, full of lorries, are the caravan bays. There is a quite separate area, of very considerable size, for lorries. You will regularly see this at Donington, especially at the weekend.
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I think there is a perception amongst some caravanners that motor homes are smaller than they actually are. Whilst some sub 6 metre vans might be above to park in a normal parking space they could still have difficulties getting in and out of a space. Even if you choose the far end of car park which might be a bit quieter someone in a car will park without regard for how you will exit. I am not without sympathy with the OP as it can be difficult to find parking for either caravan or motorhome and in the past I have had to leave a service station when not being able to find a space. The famous Gloucester Services on the M5 southbound should be the example that others have to rise to but I can't see that happening anytime soon.
David
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A bit like this at the Dartford Services a couple of years ago?
David
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I have been a contributer on this topic before and have notified MOTO in particular of the many instances where both the Coaches ONLY bays and Caravan ONLY bays are full of HGV's. In retrospect I pointed that MOTO believe that Motorhomes can park in the normal CAR areas, even if they take up more than 1 space. However I now am convinced that a Motorhome needing two spaces has a much longer wheelbase than a car, therefore needing extra room to manouvre.
The Caravan ONLY areas may also be used by cars towing trailers etc.
The supervision of parking on MSA's has usually been passed to a 3rd party for issuing parking infringements. so in effect, MOTO do not personally oversee it.
I do realise that our economy relies on the movement of goods around our country, and that industry, is growing.
I did actually ask a HGV Driver why he had parked his car transporter adjacent to a sign that Clearly stated 'Coaches ONLY'. He told me he had permission as his vehicle had a trailer. I pointed out that it stated COACHES ONLY and not Caravans ONLY.
This kind of attitude and total disregard for the Rules for Motorway Service areas has sadly been in operation for so long now, that it is considered normal practise for some HGV drivers as they get away with it, and the company pays for the subsequent Parking Charge Notices. No loss to the driver who commited the civil offence.
There is no legal basis on which to involve the Police to intervene, (public behaviour excepted) as most MSA's are privately owned.
It is a sad day when anyone can park anywhere on a Motorway Service Area and get away with it. making it difficult for other drivers and motorists to park and rest and keep our roads safer.
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Please be aware that the MOTO Wetherby Services charge £170 for a stop with a caravan.
We parked in an unmarked space, next to another caravan, because all of the drive through caravan spaces were occupied by vehicles that were not caravans. An online satellite image and the street view image confirm that there were no road markings or any signs on this area. It was not labelled as a coaches area and we had no reason to believe we could not use this space.
The initial charge notice for parking in an unmarked area did not arrive before our next touring break. When we returned home, a month after our stop at Wetherby Services, the charge had risen to £100.
My husband appealed but had no response. The next letter was from a debt collection agency now charging £170.
In summary, we believed we had parked correctly, the caravan spaces were being misused, we did not receive the increasing charges while we were away from home, the appeal refusal was not notified to us.
Vehicles towing caravans are very unwelcome at Wetherby Services.
£170 for a short stop is worse than anything that Dick Turpin carried out in that area - and he was executed.
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@Albino Sorry to hear you have had a parking charge whilst using Wetherby Services. However it is rather odd as Wetherby is one of the few Services that actually police the caravan spaces to stop other vehicle using them, certainly during busy times. When we had our motorhome we stopped a couple of times there and were directed away from the caravan spaces to the lorry area opposite.
David
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@Albino - sorry to hear your plight but I think your penultimate sentence is a bit unfair. I'm a fairly regular 'visitor' to Wetherby Services - and during the last month seemed to have been there rather more than usual due to my trips to and from the dealers in Tebay! Although, on one of my outward journeys, I got the last remaining caravan bay - due to all the others being occupied by HGVs, the area is usually extremely well policed with a friendly parking attendant directing you towards the bays. However on this occasion, he was nowhere to be seen. On my return, the following day, there he was and the caravan bays were only occupied by a couple of caravans - friendly greeting and directed towards a vacant bay. I actually went over to him and thanked him for sorting out the debacle I had seen the previous day and he apologised profusely and said he had had a day off! Seems he is the only one doing that job - but every other time I have been there, it has always been very well controlled. I agree with David @DavidKlyne , Wetherby is one of the better ones.
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The so called fine is in fact a charge which you can dispute if you so wish. If they do proceed you can produce your evidence and challenge both the fine and any costs the debt collectors have added. I do not know if they will proceed as their costs in doing that mean that to chase one ticket is not financially viable, but they may have to to make others pay up.
I suspect the odds are in your favour but the risk has to be assessed and only you can decide after waying up the various points. Possibly another way is to dispute it but send a cheque for a lesser amount, with a letter saying that acceptance by them would constitute final settlement of the matter. Possiblyworth a try.
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Aren’t motorhomes classified as motorised caravans? If so aren’t they justified in parking on these bays?
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Yes and yes!
However they could be more considerate of how they use them. We've often found motorhomes parked slap bang in the middle of a long bay when by moving forward to the end of the bay you could easily park a 2nd van in the bay this freeing a bay up for a caravan outfit.
Caravan parking spaces are rare enough so let's try and maximise their availability.
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@DaveCyn can you be sure that the said M/H had deliberately parked in the middle of the rank? Perhaps it parked up behind another LV which had subsequently departed, hence the gap at the front
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Or more likely it was parked behind a solo car. This happens a lot at Norton Canes on the M6 Toll.
At Wetherby we tried to park in the caravan bays but were directed across the road to the lorry park. Not an issue for us as there was more room and it even had its own coffee outlet so we were done a favour. All history for us now sadly.
David
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Thank you for all of your comments. On this day, there was no attendant, present. we were desperately in need of a rest, drink and food during a long journey.
We have tried to challenge this with Moto customer services, Nexus Parking and the debt collection firm. We felt dismissed and ignored by Moto and Nexus and very very threatened by the debt collection firm. This has to be illegal.
Under significant duress we used our Christmas savings to pay the £170 in fear that court action would be taken.
Had the space we parked been labelled, we wouldn't have stopped, we would probably have just carried on while very tired. Not a recommended action but the only option available to us.
Quite simply, Moto Services do not believe that touring caravans are entitled to a rest break.
Be warned
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@Albino sorry to hear about your parking ticket. On the few occasions we have stopped at Wetherby (solo as it is local to us) we have always found it to be well organised if very busy. Never had a problem. Tip for you if you are using the A1 again and want a break…… if you come off the A1 into Wetherby and drive through, you can pick up the old A1 road, which still runs alongside the new motorway stretch, and all along there, single carriageway, are a good few pull in places where you could take a break, make yourself a bite to eat, have a short break. There are one or two eateries as well, we have used with MH, but not with a towing vehicle. You simply keep going up the often quiet alternative and pick up the motorway further on at various points. It’s rarely more than the odd farm vehicle or car along here unless you are very unlucky, and we use this as a regular run going both North and South. It’s possible to go from Wetherby right up to Scotch Corner once you have looked at the map, and you cross cross the A1M at a few points, so can check how traffic is moving.
We learned a very long time ago, back in the 1980’s to factor in some non service station breaks where our routes allow. It’s less stressful, a whole lot cheaper, and we have found some interesting places to visit as well. I would rate Wetherby, along with Gloucester as two of the best service stations, far better than any others. (Haven’t used Tebay) But both get very busy, and you were unlucky enough to choose what you thought would be a legal stop, but sadly not.
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OK, confession time. Some years ago I was heading north on the M6 for Scotland. It might have been the Tebay services I stopped at, I cannot remember. What I do recall was the long diagonal caravan parking bays were occupied by cars and commercial vehicles, no caravans or motorhomes. The main car park was fairly busy and the caravan section was fairly close to the services building, hence the parking abuse. I soon realised that opposite the front/exit end of these bays I could park tight against the kerb, which would make it inconvenient for them to exit. I needed to go to the toilet so that is how I parked. When I returned some of them where waiting to leave and unhappy at how I had parked. I "politely" informed them of who the bays were to be used by. Suitably relieved I went on my travels, as did they but admittedly later than they had expected..
Colin
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Tebay Northbound can be a problem with cars parking in the slots reserved for HGV's and caravans. I di d have a long heated argument with a car driver here who eventually gave in. On very busy days they do have someone directing traffic though which stops the abuse. The Southbound one is far better with a large picnic area and caravan parking with far less problems. You can get from one to another easily by a back road which used to be signposted, although I am not sure f hat is still the case. If there are problems at the Northbound site it ight be worth looking for.
If it is a problem Gretna has a caravan parking area which does not have that problem, although you might find motorhomes and cars with trailers there. As a services it is not as good as Tebay though.
If you find
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We have got used to the fact that Lorries and vans will park in caravan spaces - but what really annoyed us was the one time we saw an AA van parked there….
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…..Who may have been waiting for a broken down car/caravan to arrive. Never assume but make sure of the facts.
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In this instance, unless I've completely misunderstood the OP, appealing the Parking Charge Notice would likely be pointless since the OP stated that they had not parked in a marked bay, about which MSA operators are generally quite specific.
Appealing the increased amount (having missed the "discounted" early payment option due to absence) together with the discounted payment might have delivered a result. I'd guess that Moto were never going to waive the original "PCN"
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