CAMC - Use of language
Just a quick moan to get a few things off my chest about the CAMC and current deterioration in use of the King’s English, in my humble opinion.
I predict that many reading this will think ‘Get a life!’
Firstly, the Club has started to use the word ‘guests’ on various site notices, and in the site rules. After 35 years membership, I thought that I was part of the Club, perhaps even in some way, a part owner of the Club and its sites? I would prefer the term ‘Site User’ which covers members, non-members, and day visitors. I don’t think of myself as a ‘guest’, do you?
Secondly, the small notice boards that the CAMC sells for motorvanners to mark their pitch now say ‘Sorry, this pitch is taken’. Why ‘sorry’? Why would I be sorry to be using a pitch? Why not just ‘This pitch is being used by a motorvan’. One shouldn’t need to apologise for being there!
Lastly (and this one has been mentioned in another thread). The CAMC claims that awnings are ‘free’, dogs are ‘free’, under 5’s are ‘free’. No, they are ‘included in the price’!
I am going to copy and paste this into an email to the Sites Department, in the faint hope of a response…!
Comments
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I totally agree with you, but then again I have been called pedantic, amongst other things less polite.
Colin
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Looking at the Club website they seem to have a new sign for when a pitch is in use. You could argue that sorry is not necessary but without the word it seems quite abrupt? Many motorhomes use their own signs on pitches for when they go out for the day.
As to saying things are "free" when they are included in the price that really is down to marketing because the Club wants you to think about the total price compared to a non Club site where such things might be extras but the headline price is lower?
David
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One of my great dislikes (or is it four?) is camc constantly telling us that we can “be assured” that “going forward” they are “working hard” and appreciate us “reaching out”.
I know it’s the modern idiom of language but the repeated use of these terms, especially “be assured”, demeans them with the result that I’m not assured at all. 🤷🏻♂️
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This is what I left on the pitch if we ever left the site for a trip out.
David
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In place of "guest" I would prefer to see "member" and/or "guest" as appropriate. To my mind more accurate.
As for the "free" that is very misleading and in contravention of the guidance given by the Advertising Standards Agency. Their code makes it clear that anything that is included in the price cannot be described as "free".
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I can't see how the examples you quote are part of the current deterioration in use of the King’s English?
In using guests as apposed to site user all the club have done is changed one word(s) for another. I think it's actually an improvement and a more polite way of the way the club thinks about us, to me a quest has a higher standing than site user. Guests are usually treated better usually? Would you be happy with hotel user? Do I have guests to dinner or my house users?
Using sorry again how is this a deterioration? To me it's just good manners. 'We' are famous through the world for our pleases, thank yous, and especially saying sorry even when it's not out fault. It's almost automatic. In Italy recently I was asked by an American if I knew where to stand for a particular tour, I replied 'sorry I don't'.
As to the free... again how is this a deterioration, a worsening, of the English language? It may be a marketing ploy but it's not a deterioration. As been said many times some sites do charge for these so the club is pointing out that it doesn't.
So as I said, it's just different words not a deterioration of the English language. When the club starts using sz pt bng used, wch out 4 children or careful hot h2o then perhaps the OP may have a point.
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I’m sure the Club will apologise for re phrasing 🤭
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I do agree that the use of guest is wrong, we are not guests but members. Yes there are some guests but they are in a minority. Possibly members and guests is correct and should be adopted. Site users would work although it somehow does not scan as well.
I have nothing against the wording of the signs though although I would not have bothered with it. It is far better than leaving the electric cable still plugged in laying across the pitch which is potentially dangerous.
In general dogs and awnings do not cost the club anything so they are free. I is more a money making scam charging for these by some independent sites. I suppose some people do mess up the grass pitches with awnings but the cost is minimal, you might look at the dog walks but in general these are just spare land not useful otherwise.
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One of the wonderful things about language is that it evolves. It may change but essentially stays the same - a means of communication.
I'm currently reading a transcription of Pepys' diaries. It is published day by day. The language may be slightly different, but it still feels the same as any other daily update. And the context is highly relevant to our times.
And written in the The King's English.
Sorry, I've wandered from the point.
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I should think ‘paying guest’ would be more accurate🤭
I am currently reading Balderdash and Piffle by Alex Games, looks at the origin of words and sayings. Some pre date any of our monarchs.
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Thanks for the replies. It has been interesting to find out that some agree with me, and some don’t agree.
We have had a long membership with the Club and have of course seen a lot of changes. These changes in language are just a mild annoyance and I wondered if it was just me! (and it’s not!).
One Putt, you are partly right. Life is too short to worry about it. Change is constant nowadays, including use of language.
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I broadly agree with what you say; The word "guest" is used in hotels etc, but as a paid-up member of CAMC, I agree that the word "guest" isn't exactly the word to describe a member of a club.
Agree that a sign on a pitch saying it's in use by someone shouldn't have a "sorry" sign to go with it; if I've paid for a pitch, then why should I be sorry if I've gone out for the day and left a sign that the pitch is in use?
Saying that awnings, under 5's and dogs are free is wrong IMHO. None of those are free at all, they're included in the price and it would be more hoest and upfront to say those are included in the price you pay; no way is it "free".
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Guests we are not, and no longer really members of a club, but what we all are is customers, surely!
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Yes, life is too short and change does happen. But what we need to be aware of is the nature, the direction of change and its effect upon both us and our future generations. Change does not just happen, we are currently living though a major change which, for many of us, was deliberately mis sold to us. Sometimes we can’t ‘see’ the changes for smoke and mirrors.
I'm off now to enjoy a weekend away!😉1 -
I wonder if its the case with longer serving Club members that over "familiarity" blinds us to what the less familiar would think in that we know what we know and we don't need things softened or changed? But in recent years we have had a lot of new members who are not so attuned to all things Caravan and Motorhome Club? To me it makes sense to use the sort of words and phrases that the Club are currently using. I think CS's post above really sums up the nuances of the different types of wording. Just a couple of examples, guest covers all options, whether you are staying on site or a non-member visiting someone on site. I would prefer the Club to use the word "sorry" as it has quite a wide ranging meaning. Imagine a situation where you are a tent camper and you know there is a Club site near where you want to stay. You arrive at the site to be greeted with a sign saying "No Tents" That doesn't convey a very friendly message. However if the sign says Sorry, No Tents it softens the rejection. Just my thoughts.
David
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With reference to the last paragraph: Those members without awnings, children under 5 or dogs pay exactly the same price. There is no reduction, therefore they must be free of charge.
It has never bothered me whether the Clubs say " free " or "included in the price". Using one word "free" is shorter!
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Guest means either "a person invited to someone's home or to attend a social function" or "a person staying at a hotel or guest house". It is obviously inappropriate to use such a term for a person or people occupying their own caravan or motor home on a club pitch. Visitors, members, campers, site-users are all preferable. "Site-user" is a bit cumbersome, but I do not think anyone in their right mind would ever say "house-user" which Corners thinks justifies ruling out "site-user". I am not sure it does.
As DK says "I am pitched here" would be abrupt, but the fault there does not lie in the omission of the word "Sorry". "This pitch is reserved" or simply "Reserved" as you would see on a restaurant table, for example, would be fine. No doubt, soon, restaurant tables will say "Sorry, I am reserved". Let us hope not. Sorry is just not needed. "Sorry, I don't know" in response to a person's question is polite and I would always say that too. However, that is a quite different circumstance.
On a separate point, the use of the first-person pronoun is hugely irritating to me. It's like, "Sorry, I am not in service" which you see on the front of buses often. "This bus is not in service" would be much better. Buses are not living things.
I do not think the use of "free" in publicity is about the use of English per se. Nonetheless, it is annoying, albeit used by marketeers universally despite it being blatantly misleading."Going forward" and "reaching out", mentioned by Tinny, are hugely irritating, especially the latter which, as is so often the case, is an American import; I see this a lot in emails from across the pond and I HATE IT. I would love to make some sarcastic response to it, but I have never dared.
I am a pedant about use of English; I know there are those who talk about language evolving; but too often the evolution is driven by ignorance.
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but I do not think anyone in their right mind would ever say "house-user" which Corners thinks justifies ruling out "site-user". I am not sure it does.
I didn't anything about justifying ruling out site user. If you read my post again you'll see I said guest has a higher standing than user and then I asked a question:
'I think it's actually an improvement and a more polite way of the way the club thinks about us, to me a quest has a higher standing than site user. Guests are usually treated better usually? Would you be happy with hotel user? Do I have guests to dinner or my house users?'
Where in that do you get I'm ruling out site user?
About saying sorry. Are the circumstances different? In both cases someone, either the club or the pitch occupier is apologizing (
) for something that is not their fault. Either the club or the occupier, or like the example I gave, myself.As to 'imports', I'm not really bothered, if a word or phrase gets over, sorry communicates, what someone is trying to say then it's fine by me. Language does and has evolved by whatever means necessary, as I was told by my Head of English.
Anyway, moving on and reaching out, and not trying to be a monday morning quarterback, or try to pass the buck, or even ride shotgun over this, after all we're just shooting the breeze here and it's best not to get behind the eight ball. But we've had lots of complaints about the club on CT (justified or not), prices, pitch rules, arrivals... I'm not sure how many and would hesitate even to give a ball park figure so I'll plead the fifth on that otherwise that could be for the birds?
And now we have the language used on site signs! If this is all there is left well the club must be doing something right and (to end with another import) you've got to give props to the club for that.
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I’m another person who loathes all the corporate jargon and business speak terms. Had to suffer it far too often at work. It used to make meetings very tedious, boring.
My OH made a lovely ‘Camper Van parked here’ sign when we had our first little Camper. First time we used it, over forty years ago, we left it on our pitch space at Beddgelert, along with a dog screw. Came back after a day out, and some thieving so and so had taken both😡 We just use an old number plate on two tent pegs now.
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Rob2 - I wouldn't worry about the CAMC's use of English when the BBC - who used to be the defenders of all matters regarding spoken English - are by far the biggest offenders.
I don't know if anyone else noticed but on yesterday's news, a reporter was doing a piece to camera about concrete cladding and the fact that some panels have a polystyrene backing and are therefore now considered unsafe.
He went on to talk about another type - which he described as "more concretey"!!! (Not even sure how to spell it
).Don't get me started on "different to" instead of the correct, "different from".
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I was taught that too, but is different to now incorrect?
From some simple searching and listening to English teachers recently both are now considered correct, with different to in spoken (British) English far more common and will eventually replace from, the language evolves I suppose. I would suspect you will worry when the American different than starts to appear?
'That caravan is different from that caravan' is fine, although to could be used but in 'This site will be different to the next one we visit' using from here just does not work or sound right?
I don't think it matters, am I bothered? (thanks to Lauren for bringing that back in fashion), sorry am I concerned? Or as I've been hearing the past week and a half in a school from the children - I'm not fussed? about all that. The answer is no personally.
But I will admit to having a dislike for poor punctuation that makes things unclear (let's eat Grandma v let's eat, Grandma), and especially the apostrophe, as in when they are used when they shouldn't - tea's, coffee's.
But at the end of that day it's the site itself that attracts not the language used on it.
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I'm sure some will like and some will hate this:
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we are members as we pay a membership fee. Sorry is just being polite, people used to use please and thank you but you don't hear it much now so I expect sorry will go the same way.
If you pay for your stay and don't have any dogs or young children, then the cost has not been included , so when I pay , I don't pay for my dogs therefore they are free.
Over the years words change their meanings, I can't keep up with it all, in 2024 , 200 new words have been added to the dictionary. I still don't like being called guy, as in , come on you guys or hi guys. We are becoming very Americanised, if that's a word.
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