Plans for the Sandringham site
Comments
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I can never remember using one Ttda that wasn't at least 75% full and often 100% at weekends.
Agree with the comparison on CLs nowadays.
We've stayed at the site at Sandringham on at least 4 occasions that I can recall but mainly due to a lack of CLs being conveniently situated for our needs.
I do tend to agree with having Glamping pods there.
With regard to the position argued that some members aren't getting what they particularly want I think that rather shortsighted. There are many things I don't use that my membership fee or pitch fee go towards. I don't have a dog or children or grandchildren or need a toilet block or a restaurant or even a Glamping pod (at the moment) but I accept it as part of a "club" ethos. I daresay I pay for some of those wherever I pitch be it a CL or Independent site etc.
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I have just seen a post on a Facebook Group by Cameron Burns (don't know if he has any connection to the Club but I am sure he writes in the Magazine now and again and he runs a website called Not Another White Box, which is about vintage caravans.
He posted, in response to some negative post about the subject of this discussion:-
To correct a lot of misinformation/prejudice that’s circulating on this group at the moment about the Glamping experiences being offered on some CAMC sites, here are the facts:
- The Glamping packages are offered to Experience Freedom members. Experience Freedom is a new membership package developed by the Club, to entice more people to try staycation experiences in the UK and perhaps inspire younger people to invest in a leisure vehicle. You can book as a non-member, but it’s more cost effective to be a member.
- As an Experience Freedom member, you are bound to the same rules as everyone else in the Club. It is an identical membership offering as the main membership, just under a different name to suit people who don’t yet own a leisure vehicle.
- There are 159 CAMC sites in the UK, just EIGHT of them have Glamping accommodation available, so it remains a very niche offering from the Club.
- The sites chosen have areas that are undeveloped and unsuitable for leisure vehicles, so these areas have been used to install the Glamping Pods and Cabins. NO pitches have been sacrificed, and in most cases, the sites have situated the Glamping accommodation in completely separate areas to the touring pitches.
- The accommodation offered sleeps on average 2-4 people, so no large groups. Just TWO sites have cabins that can sleep up to six people.
- The thought behind the project was that it will allow members to holiday with family members and friends who don’t own a leisure vehicle. It will also hopefully attract younger members to the Club and hopefully immerse them in the world of the CAMC and encourage them to make the investment in a leisure vehicle of their own.
I get that people don’t like change, but you should probably be reminded that the Club didn’t allow motorhomes to join until 1967, and even then there was a very large contingent of members who didn’t want to allow motorhome owners to join… times change, things evolve. You can still form your opinion about the Experience Freedom package, but at least consider all the facts beforehand.I think he was trying to give a bit of balance.
David
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Motorhomes use SP in far greater numbers now that caravans
Maybe in your opinion, CS, on the sites you have used, but it certainly isn't always the case as on the last one we were on there were no M/Hs on the serviced pitches while some were occupied by caravans.
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Not an opinion at all but an observation which I've always made clear in previous posts as always. I've used 11 eight separate sites in the past year or so and some repart sites as well and in all cases MH outnumbered caravans on SP, on two occasions it was 90%+, and others who actually use club sites regularly have posted in a similar fashion so I would say this confirm a general trend. What was Seacroft over Christmas, 80% MHs?
Not sure where you went or indeed when, if it was part in the recent free night voucher in January (which if the only time you've posted recently about using a club site and I can't recall any more before that as you usually use CLs ) then it isn't really a fair test.
But at the end of the day, or season, whatever I or anyone thinks about SPs, glamping pods and how members use them makes no difference. If they sell well, and they certainly do, then more will follow. The club will how much more profitable they are compared to other pitch types, and how much they are in demand and act accordingly. If there had been no take up in the past of glamping pods the club wouldn't be going forward with them
Luckily as we're often told, there are cheaper and better sites out there so no great loss. Those that want basic sites, use CLs (harsh but reality) which again are often quoted as just as good if not better.
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Why is not a real test, any time on club sites are "real", and.although we very rarely stay on club sites I do have a look around quite a few and do not recognise the sort of figures you quote. Our latest visit was in January this year but why should that be any different from other times of the year. Looking at the numbers touring about at this time of the year MHs outnumber caravans out on the road so surely this greater percentage should be reflected in numbers on site and therefore on serviced pitches surely.
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Nellie
I think it might depend where the sites are. Not sure if I am typical but I suspect motorhomers like to stay on sites with easy access to a town or public transport. CS mentions Seacroft which of course is ideally located from that point of view. We tend to go every October and as CS observes there are a lot of motorhomers using the service pitches, including ourselves. OK the service pitches at Seacroft are the best on the site which could of course also influence their choice? We don't automatically use serviced pitches as it depends on the layout of the site. If I can be on a decent hardstanding not too far from a service point I am happy not to bother with a serviced pitch. I suppose we all develop our own methods?
David
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We do stay on quite a few sites per year, as we only stay for a few nights at each. My observations, bearing in mind we do use some service pitches, is that in recent years MH’s at least equal caravans and often exceed them. Most of our stays take place in May / June and September October. I dare say in the peak summer holidays when more families holiday the picture may be different at coastal sites. Although at Hawes in August, when we took our granddaughter away, the number occupying service pitches during our 4 day stay was generally equal.
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It is not a real as reference to fair and complete. You described only one visit to prove your point and so does not disprove my own experiences and/or proves yours.
In my view of course a visit in January is far different to any other time of year! Sites have always generally been less popular in January than other months in my view, although bookings for sites like York, Melrose and others, still show good occupancy during the winter months while full(er) in the warmer months.
I do have a look around quite a few and do not recognise the sort of figures you quote
I don't understand this often posted idea. Unless you're looking round at late evening perhaps those MHs just might be off site and so proves nothing unless you're checking MH on this pitch notices as well? Also I do hope you're checking in as a visitor as anyone should.
Looking at the numbers touring about at this time of the year... again during the day they will off site and not too many sites open at this time of year?
I'm trying to get a SP at Melrose and I can't get any full weeks till June, only one full week (the last week) in February but we're away. They are certainly popular and the trend is increasing.
Post edit, just read the other replies and others appear to have the same observations.
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Our experiences mirror Nellies Corners. I’d expect sites close to towns, YRP, Melrose, BBW to be fairly busy, but others further out in sticks have been a good bit quieter. We stayed at Clumber in September and it wasn’t busy, Cayton Bay had the site half shut and a mere dozen outfits on the open side back in November, and Castleton pre Christmas (previously really had to book in advance) wasn’t busy at all. I’ve just booked two nights at a weekend at Bolton Abbey and at Burrs CP without any problems. Looked at Knaresborough this coming weekend, pitches available. We were inundated with emails last Summer telling us that we should book a coastal resort site, so there’s obviously spare pitches.
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You can find the detail of the proposal >here.< Quite a lot of work involved so I imagine the site will be closed at some point. I hope at least one of the glamping tents will be wheelchair accessible. I like the inclusion of the 4 UA pitches.
Attached are photos of plans:
1 Current site
2. Proposed site
peedee
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Peedee
Thanks for the site plans, that seems to be quite an expansion and hopefully illustrate to people that they are not taking existing pitches.
David
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Sorry to repost a reply twice, but I was reading them before on my phone.
For accuracy where in my post you replied to did I say anything about a real test? I said a fair test which I expended on later.
MHs outnumber caravans out on the road
Also thinking about it more of course MHs will always outnumber caravans out on the road, MHers will use their MH during the day for day trips while caravanners will leave their caravan on the site.
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I don't think that was what NTF was referring to but MHs on SP?
Again as I posted before individual experiences will count for nothing (including my own btw) especially at the off peak months like the ones you are quoting but there can be no denying the general upward trend in the popularity of SP and upgrades as posted a number of posters. The club will look at what sells well, what is demand and change according to that.
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I found myself on a pitch once (overseas of course) which had a short length of plastic pipe (about 20 cm diameter) sunk flush into the ground as a drain (I only spotted it by accident) , and a tap on the back corner to share with neighbours.
Had I accidentally strayed on to a service pitch? It seemed cheap enough to set up and didn’t strike me as anything out of the ordinary - hardly worth paying extra for but I bet the Club will over engineer things at Sandringham.
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someone has mentioned several times that the club seems to be moving back towards courting a well heeled customer base....certainly seems to be the case,
That certainly seems to be the case, its sad to think we will never see the likes of new low facility Club sites anymore and what would be even worse is to see more of them disappear. However I am sure once the revamp has been done, combined with its location, Sandrigham will be a well used prestigious site, even at £60 per night. It won't be for us, at least while I own a tourer, but I don't think it will be many more years before I have to park my wheels for good and perhaps then an interest in glamping might be sparked.
peedee
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"and perhaps then an interest in glamping might be sparked."
Exactly, PD, and that’s one reason why it’s a good move for CAMC to include such units on site. You could say they are indeed spending your membership fee in a way that could suit you. 👍🏻
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Sorry Corners, you are right, it’s about serviced pitches not numbers on sites.
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We did a south-eastern uk tour last autumn and we stopped at Sandringham, but it was (like you) 'next door'....way cheaper and a very nice relaxing site which we've used before.
agreed, I'm sure the finished site will be great but prices may preclude some from visiting (especially those distant from the west or the north) while others will just continue to use their provider of choice....whatever the cost.
i guess someone will have to pay for the refurb.
like yourself, TDDA and others on CT, we rue the Clubs 'decision' to let those low facs sites slip out of the network.
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We did a south-eastern uk tour last autumn and we stopped at Sandringham, but it was (like you) 'next door'....way cheaper and a very nice relaxing site which we've used before.
It is of course only way cheaper for you and us because of our age and time of year. Younger members actually pay around £1 a night more, for a HS pitch, as of course we would if we used it at peak. Presumably we are being subsidised.
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Steve, if someone wishes to cut their nose off to spite their face then that's up to them, but if two sites are adjacent and of similar 'quality' then why not go for one that substantially cheaper, therefore much better VFM?
you cant possibly believe that someone wouldn't go to the C&CC site 'because it's subsidised'?🤷🏻♂️
perhaps i should have gone to CAMC and paid much more as I was only getting the other site cheaper because I'm old.....👴
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I don’t see that I have suggested that you don’t take advantage of the age related rate YT, as we do ourselves. However, your post just stated that the site was way cheaper with no further information. That was misleading to anyone reading it who isn’t aware of the facts. It would have been more accurate to state that was with age related discount, as otherwise there is little difference in the prices.
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The trouble with the "No Facility Sites" is that many of them were uneconomic to run and some even had to rely on "volunteer" members to run them. I am not sure whether you can legally run a permanent site, for which site fees are paid, with volunteers, surely that goes against the rules of the NMW? Some minimum facility sites like Hebden Bridge can probably succeed and there are probably a few others but clearly some can't. I am pretty sure the Club has a enough background information to work out whether no facility sites are likely to work. If given the choice I imagine that if the Club purchased a new site their first choice would be to develop it with the facilities the majority of members wanted. After all there are plenty of CL's around that more than meet that niche requirement. Don't get me wrong I don't mind no facility sites and have used quite a few of them over the years but I can't see how they are commercially viable? It is perfectly clear that a refurbished Sandringham site will be popular if the likes of Morn Hill and Cayton Village are anything to go by. I think even I would bulk at the Premium Pitch prices but clearly some are willing to pay.
David
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I liked the non-fac sites too. During peak times they were often quiet as families didn’t seem to use them much. While this made them ideal for me, I can see that quiet sites not bursting at the seams wouldn’t be ideal from CAMC's point of view.
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That’s the difference with the “Club” nowadays, it’s made an active decision (for no doubt a few reasons) to ditch the economy side of its provision, and concentrate on generating more income on its premium end provision. It’s definitely touting the CLs (some) as it’s economy arm, and there’s been a definite shift towards monitoring Member spend (as in “as much as the Membership can stand parting with”) via enlarging the Marketing Dept and a good bit of number crunching going on, which in turn is driving the special offers, ditch this, add that on, selected dates only, etc…. deals that are on offer.
The Club knows it’s market absolutely spot on. It’s ageing, wanting a lot of the effort removed from actually touring, got the most income to part with in terms of cost of living, and there’s a good core of customers, existing and newly attracted who are happy to go with a brand that gives them a known world without any surprises no matter where they roll up. In fact, it the touring equivalent of a pair of Marks and Spencer’s knickers, reliable quality, won’t let you down, and very safe! 😁
No use to moan about the change really. It’s excellent marketing, future proofing the Club and it’s sites, giving the majority of Members (those with the spending power😉) what they want, and even if you cannot tow or drive a MH, you can still enjoy Club life in a different type of accommodation! Even the likes of us would try a Glamping Pod or Safari tent at a special offer price👍
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perhaps i should have gone to CAMC and paid much more as I was only getting the other site cheaper because I'm old...
Shock.... I have just compared prices for a 3 night stay at the February half term at the Sandringham sites. The C&MC is £3 cheaper even allowing for the C&CC OAP discount. Even a C&CC grass no electric pitch is more expensive without the OAP discount. That is something of a turn around!
peedee
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There's a fairly long running thread on uk campsite peedee that talks about increasing prices with the other club. All those subsidies for others have to be picked up somewhere so I guess that will be the working age families.
JK
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Probably a combination of the Club reducing prices for 2024 and the C&CC raising them. The latter do have some good offers later in the season.
Back to the proposed plans,
Royal sources said the King would be consulted and would have to approve any alterations on his 20,000-acre estate, which he inherited after the death of Queen Elizabeth II in 2022.
I would be very surprised if the estate was not consulted before the planning application was submitted to the council.
peedee
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The link posted in the OP suggests HRH has given his approval.
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He has
JK
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