Cheaper holidays EV charging
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Not sure re cheaper holidays, cant imagine towing my 1575kgs of metal with an EV just yet, but an interesting article today "Fire crews' fears over electric car blazes" says that brigades are now sending 2 units to every EV blaze because "their batteries cause rocket like infernos when ablaze" and are difficult to extinguish and toxic fumes such as hydrogen cyanide are released, a professor has stated that ev's are less likely to catch fire than petrol or diesel but imagine one going up in flames on a camp site
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AD - Agreeing to disagree is fine :-) Our philosophy on towing varies, as it does for many on here independent of tow car type or outfit.
Rocky - Thanks for the upvote :-) There are two facebook groups now that focus on EV towing. They have a whole range of folks towing everything from teardrops to twin axles. There is quite a breadth of knowledge and experience building up that is being shared round the UK. The experience is found to be good by those for whom the towing style is suited (which is not for everyone - Right, AD
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They look promising ChocT thanks. The whole like minded souls thing sounds good. It takes an open mind to accept new concepts & innovation combined with the first step forward(1st EV buy) into the unknown. I am a consumer of everything innovative like Solar, wind & EV. The future is bright👍🏻
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This isn't specifically about EV's, but must also apply to almost anything powered by Lithium Ion batteries.
If you have an EV, have a look so you're aware. If you're thinking about an EV, it might give you grounds to re-consider..............I have no plans to ever own a BEV ..... and now I'll be even more careful not to crash into one too !
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Another environmental hazard being released onto our highways with consequencies that we are not yet aware of, there are reports of Fire Station commanders having to send two units to any fire involving an EV as the fire is so intense one unit cannot cope, there is a car transporter burning out of control off the coast of Holland believed to have been started by a fire in an EV, next will be insurance hikes to cover the dangers of EV's on our roads and in our garages, best get our bicycles out would seem a much safer way to travel
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Perhaps a more balanced view? https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/are-electric-car-fires-really-that-common/
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TATA are building their factory at Bridgwater in Somerset.
Cornish Lithium has been mining in Cornwall since 2016. They have recently joined forces with Imerys, the China Clay mining company, and are reworking old mining sites. That is nothing to do with TATA.
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Given that today there are many more millions of ICE cars on our roads than EV's, and that even today fire services are having difficulty tackling EV fires and the fact that even when they think the fire has been extinguished it has the ability to re-ignite itself or in fact to burn for many days has to be a worry and i find this disturbing
" Certainly the issues of fighting EV fires has raised issues about EV batteris in other areas. Installing EV charging points in such places as underground car parks may need to be reconsidered"
our local general hospital has already installed charging points in a newly built multi storey car park, ok they are not exactly underground but they are only a roadswidth from the hospital buildings.
"China was the first to adopt new regulations focused on thermal runaway, which include a requirement for fire and smoke to contained within the battery pack for at least five minutes after first ignition. While this regulation is yet to be formally adopted in Europe, manufacturers are building EVs to meet these requirements to pre-empt likely future regulation."
I guess a step in the right direction, but are new EV's rolling off the production line built to this standard ? if not how many millions of EV's out there will not have this feature.
they are now saying that it is reported that 500 EV's are on board the car transporter and that it could take weeks to burn itself out
How much hydrofluoric acid released into the atmosphere ???
not sure "cheaper holidays" if one of these went up on a crowded caravan site today it would be carnage, yes you could say "when was there last a car fire on a caravan site" thankfully very few i feel
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Speaking as a long term EV owner I've seen the results of the combustible properties of ice vehicles on my travels but have yet to witness an EV in the same situation. That's seven years of driving an EV..I have seen the charred remains of a motorhome on a site, sadly.
Of course if you've flown recently you'll also know about explosive aviation fuel and pollution too. The same for ships at sea.
EVs were designed to lesson the pollution in the air you breathe, no bad thing and a credit to all the design and research work in their development.
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I notice you've ignored the fact that ICE cars tend catch fire later in their lifespan due to other faults like fuel leaks or components breaking down through age and use.
Unlike electric cars that start catching fire on the journey from the factory to whichever country is importing them before they have even been used by the customer who ordered them?
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Not against EV's brue in fact would be a good investment for us as we have solar panels but to spend £30k+ for a run around is too much of an investment for me and i need a big car not an EV to tow the caravan so our old Kia Carens (2008)will have to last a few more years yet as a run around, but at 2k miles per annum i dont think we are doing too much damage..
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What are the EVs causing a fire between manufacture and import?
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Two example
1. March 1st 2022. The Felicity Ace had been carrying nearly 4,000 vehicles from various Volkswagen Group brands. A number of the vehicles were fully electric, including models from Volkswagen and Audi, something that could have made the fire more difficult to control. Fires involving lithium ion batteries are particularly difficult to extinguish.
2. Last week. K Line, the company that chartered the Fremantle Highway said on Friday that it was carrying far more electric vehicles than initially reported by the coastguard.Company spokesman Pat Adamson said the ship was carrying a total of 3,783 new vehicles, including 498 electric vehicles, including Mercedes-Benz.
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Nellie
There is no proof in either case that the fires were started by EV's on board, plenty of speculation yes. Interestingly the types of ships involved have a pretty poor safety record going back to 2002, which was long before EV's were being transported across the globe. I am not saying that it is not possible that it started by a battery in an EV but that has not been proved as yet.
David
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And how many of those fires have actually been attributed to the EVs on the ships in question? Definitely not the second so far. It’s still on fire and no root cause has been identified as far as I am aware? Was the first attribute to an EV fire, or was it another unexplained fire on a ship in which some EVs happened to be involved?
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Whilst fires actually started by the battery in an EV are recognised by the fire service and they have a strategy for dealing with them, what are the hazards if the car is involved in a fire started externally, eg parked in a garage at home and the house catches fire or vandalism / riots and the car is deliberately set fire to? Are batteries fireproofed against this type of fire?
I know these examples are very rare and I could have sighted other scenarios but I'm sure you get my drift. In these sorts of instances, would the fire service know that a car involved was an EV or will they be treating every fire involving a car as though it was?
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You are correct it has not been identified as to what caused the fire on the Freemantle Highway, what is of concern is that there are reportedly 500 EV's onboard, far more than was first thought and it is the very large numbers involved which is the major concern, and the lack of expertise in dealing with what is probably today an unknown as far as tackling a blaze where 500 EV's are involved.
this is an interesting piece, you would have thought that if the vessel was known to be carrying EV's some precautions would have been taken to ensure the right substances were onboard to fight a possible fire, but if you expand this to the greater world, i wonder how many garages in the UK e.g. would have these special substances to hand in the event of an EV fire.
"Why is this fire so hard to put out?
The Fremantle Highway car carrier had around 3,800 new cars on board, including 500 electric vehicles. The lithium-ion batteries installed in these vehicles are extremely difficult to extinguish once they start to burn. The fire cannot be extinguished with water or by oxygen deprivation, as this carries a risk of explosion. Not only that, thermal processes can also cause fires spontaneously to reignite. Burning batteries must be extinguished with special substances that are often not to hand on ships like the Fremantle Highway."1 -
"In these sorts of instances, would the fire service know that a car involved was an EV or will they be treating every fire involving a car as though it was?"
Those pretty green stripes on the number plates will tell them all they need to know
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It seems to me that if you want to save money then you don't buy an EV in the first place.
I received an email from Volvo the other day and the difference in cost of leasing (PCP) a XC40 mild hybrid versus a XC40 EV is astonishing.
Over the 48 month duration period , the cost for MH is £23,469 whilst the EV is £38,319.
If you the decide to pay the balloon payment to own the car outright, the final totals are:
MH £41,165 compared to £63,474 for the EV.
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"Don't Buy an EV to save money" may be valid. "Dont Use an EV to save money" may be a different question. It really depends on your personal circumstances as to how affordable (or not) an EV may be for you.
As a company car driver, it's the cheapest way to have a new car on my drive. By a loooong way.
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A neighbour, whose drive is opposite mine, has just taken delivery of a Kia EV6, strangely the same colour as mine Niro HEV. That car has a list price of £62500. Didn't realise I had such well off neighbours
It transpires from having a chat with him that he got the car through the company he works for of a salary sacrifice scheme. I have no idea how that works but it must a pretty good deal for him, especially up to now he and his wife are running a couple of cars over ten years old!David
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A as far as the first one is concerned it will probably never certain of the cause as the vessel is on the sea floor, and I very much doubt accessible to those who job it is to ascertain the cause of the fire, but the intensity of the foreclosure to it having been caused by an EV battery. The fire on the F H was very similar hence the thoughts are that it was caused in the same way. Should they manage to get int the vessel the investigators may then be able to say for certain now and why it started. Until then it is only speculation.
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Hi Nellie,
I am not sure I buy into that. The EVs on board would have contributed to fuel the fire to burn on. But l there is no evidence that they started it. Indeed all the evidence to date points to EVs being far less likely to spontaneously catch fire than petrol or diesel cars.
It’s just as likely that the fire started elsewhere and spread to the EVs.0 -
Where is the fairness in charging £9 for both a hybrid which will get barely 40 miles from a charge and also for a full electric which will get 100+ miles from its overnight charge!?
And how much extra are those folks charged who run their aircon units for 24 hours in midsummer?
We do need metered electricity supplies - NOW !
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Early this year we visited Chirk CMC the EV chargers are 22 kWh, we have just returned from Blacknowl in the New Forest their EV charger are only 7 kWh, both sites you can only charge in £6.08 10kWh block charge.
Charging up from the caravan is a real restrictive and a pain, we tow with a PHEV, we no longer use any commercial EV charger, financially it is cheaper to run the PHEV as a petrol hybrid whether towing or running solo, 50 pence a kWh is our break even point.
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I've worked out that the break-even for us is around 35p/kWh. So it's pretty rare we charge up when away from home. When we're on a C&CC site is one of the exceptions.
Quite frankly, the CAMC's charge is a rip-off, certainly for PHEVs like ours.
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