Cheaper holidays EV charging
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Our MH is exactly the same as you describe in your first para but in no way compares to the controls in our EV.
I'm not sure the driving experience of a hybrid equates to that of a full EV 🤷🏻♂️
I know you’re not an EV fan so there’s no point in me listing other differences between driving an EV and an ICE powered car.
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@ Chocolate Trees .... That stop took 37 mins of charging while we used the loo and had a coffee. Actual wait time - about 3 mins, and about 6 mins of un-hitch / hitch.
So, when we're all forced into an EV, I hope there will be a lot more chargers (& leccy to keep up with them) otherwise when you're 3rd, 4th or 5th in the queue, that 3/4hr stop will be somewhat longer. What you might same on 'filling up' will be spent on more coffee!
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G force?-that could be why younger folk seem so taken with EV’s Tinny, plus the speed & ease of drive whereas some older folk are harder to convince🤷🏻♂️
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As the regulars on here will know, I am an EV objector. The point for me is that if they are so good, the change would happen naturally, not by legislative force. Granted all the current objections - range, cost, infrastructure - will improve over time (or not!) and if it does then EV's may become the "go to" means of transport. My objection to the whole political project is the way we are being forced into EV's by (upcoming) legislation, although it is now looking as though that legislation will probably delay the cliff edge until 2035.
As a byline, I have just returned from a 2000 mile trip around Europe in my ICE car taking in some of the most beautiful parts of the Alps in Switzerland and the Italian Dolomites. I saw remarkably few EV's, particularly in the more remote parts of Switzerland. Both my petrol and diesel cars qualify for the French Crit Air system.
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We seem to have come a long way from the topic of charging EV’s on CAMC sites but you’re quite entitled to your view, Nutsy.
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Nutsy, do you object to EVs as a technology or market manipulation as a policy? If the latter, do you also object to the subsidies associated with the oil industry?
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CT
First of all I note that whilst you totally reject Daily Mail reports, you happily quote from the Guardian
. Have you seen the Governments own Transport Committee report on EV's? Not exactly in support. What you can't debunk is the fact that the UK generates a tiny proportion of the world's carbon compared to China, India, Asia in general and the USA (although Biden is giving huge subsidies to change this).To answer your question - no, I do not object to the technology nor do I object to financial market subsidies. However, you must recognise that if we listen to the Just Stop Oil fanatics we would be all living in caves again. Oil and coal will be around for many years, like it or not. Transition should be slow and occur naturally.
My objection is the political manipulation, which to a certain extent is also financial in the tax breaks that are available. HMG are being totally dishonest (nothing new there) in their promotion of net zero in general (not just EV's) without coming clean on what it is going to cost the ordinary "man/woman in the street".
I'll say this again - if EV's were so good, legislation would not be required to make us all buy them. I totally accept that in the right circumstances EV's have their place - regular town/city driving, home charging facilities, no great mileage needed between home and back.
My wife could use one for her daily trip to the gym, and probably will when her next car change comes along - but she should not be forced to do so by politicians who will be long gone when the poo hits the fan in a few years time. However, she would not even attempt to do a 200 mile round mway trip including the M25 to see our daughter in it, one of my proper cars would disappear off the drive.
To keep this thread caravan based - Winter trip to Southern Spain towing the caravan? CMC paying for charging points? By all means allow it from the pitch and pay for it, but don't load the cost of installing charge points on to the rest of us.
I also wonder how road charging would work. If restricted to EV's only then fine as GPS could do the job , but that couldn't possibly work for the 30m plus ICE cars that will be around for the next 20 years. There simply is not the finance to erect cameras and gantries nationwide.
If the technology could be found for ICE cars, I would welcome it as my mileage is low, and in the case of my summer toy 90% of its 2400 a year mileage is not in the UK but I pay the usual VED for it.
EV's have their place, I fully accept, but should not be compulsory.
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Nutsy
I think the problem, had the Government not decided to set a deadline by which new ICE cars could not be sold, would not have provided the incentive for manufacturers to switch to EV production? The decision acts as a catalyst for action. I don't think it would have worked any other way.
The problem for those of us on forums like this is that to continue our hobby an EV is generally not at the right stage of development in terms of range. Chocolate Trees and Andrew Ditton are perhaps pioneers in the use of EV's for towing but the compromises they are willing to make I suspect would not sit comfortably with the majority? As far as I can see motorhomes are even further behind and because its a much smaller market I suspect it will be some time before we see a conventional motorhome powered by batteries. There are a few prototypes around but until I see at least one EV motorhome in the range of all the major motorhome builders its difficult to see where the future is leading us. It will come I am sure.
I have always quite liked the idea of road pricing and was disappointed that the idea was dropped by a previous Government mainly because of the hysterical reaction by the motoring press. How could road pricing not be a fairer way of replacing the rather blunt instrument we now have VED. I think the technology could be quickly put in place as it's already in use, and example would be motorway tags in France.
David
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I can't remember who the politicians were, unfortunately, but on two occasions recently on TV the word "hydrogen" was used in the same sentence as "electric cars". Is this "diesel-gate" all over again when there was a push by the government for us all to convert to diesel cars- and now they have changed their corporate minds and electric is the be all and end all - or will it be hydrogen?.
I've no objection to electric vehicles in principal but I don't think the dots have, even yet, been joined up properly regarding the unintended consequences and the hidden, less obvious costs of a mass changeover. As nutsy commented, it should be evolution not revolution driven by our want to change to electric vehicles for their own sake and not because of any incentives or compulsion to do so.
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Hydrogen vs EV is todays Petrol vs Diesel, just an alternative & until it is all fully researched & used practically no one can definitively say which is best JM🤷🏻♂️
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No-one is being forced into EV ownership and it might well be that other technologies take over far beyond our present knowledge.
In the meantime caravan owners can tow with a variety of vehicles and it's good to see hybrids etc in the mix. At present the best ones give good local mileage on batteries and good conventional towing. What's missing with CAMC is rapid charge facilities to make the whole thing more user friendly. Even if CAMC goes over to glamping people will be increasingly arriving in cars which need charging.
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John
As I understand it the reason why the emphasis has been put on EV's rather than Hydrogen is simply the fact that when such decisions were made it actually used more electricity to produce the hydrogen than it would to use to charge batteries. This situation could/perhaps will change over time but it wasn't a viable alternative when the EV decision was made. The thinking now is that it is more likely that hydrogen will be used in heavy industry rather than for domestic uses. From this hobby point of view I imagine that hydrogen would have the benefit that it could give greater range with lighter vehicles. However if you can't produce enough of it, cheaply enough then people will migrate to EV's as they are likely to be cheaper, although I hesitate to use cheaper when it comes to the cost of new vehicles! Having said that you can buy a pretty decent electric car for about £25000 but probably not much good for towing.
Perhaps an area that was overlooked when decisions were made was not looking more closely at HEV and PHEV powered vehicles. There have been some good reports from people towing with PHEV cars. I have just taken delivery of an HEV car and I am quite surprised how much it runs just in "battery" mode but many of my journeys are quite short and at lower speeds. I suppose the elephant in the room is that both HEV and PHEV still use fossil fuels so you don't achieve the same result pollution wise as you do with a full LV vehicle. Finally I would add that whilst saving the planet might be top of the agenda we can't overlook the positive impact that EV's will make on local pollution levels which should improve the quality of life for young and old alike?
David
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Hi David
I agree with all you say, however road charging - yes in France, autoroutes only. Requires infrastrucure investment in the toll gates and attached IT systems. The rest of the road network in France is free, as no VED over there. The autoroutes are privately owned,built and maintained and the owners are the ones collecting the tolls.
Switzerland and Austria - autoroutes only by pre purchased vignette, which is also a blunt instrument akin to VED.
I can't see HMG coughing up for a motorway toll system, let alone the rest of the road network - can you?
I agree that it is the way forward, but it won't happen in our lifetime.
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Nutsy.
I dont reject the previous report because it was in the Daily Mail, I reject it because the content was factually incorrect.
We do produce a small amount of the worlds carbon, and other large producers are moving to change this. We are in line with other efforts.
EVs are not compulsory. Not today, not in 2030 and not in 2035. The transition is gradual with the date for sales of ICE ending still over 12 years away. No is banning the use of ICE cars now, nor likely in the future.The choice of what you buy and drive is entirely your own.
200 miles range in an EV is no great shakes today. You can buy a 2 year old ZoE capable of 230 miles real world in winter for under 15K used. Why would your wife not attempt such a journey? Does she have first had experience of charging an EV that has put her off, or is there some assumption it might be too hard?
Towing to Spain in winter - of course it can be done - today - in an EV. But if it's not your thing, don´t do it. Why would the CMC be paying for charge points, unless it was a commercially viable move. Customers are not a charity.
Road charging is something I would like to see come in - like you I don´t know how it might work, but it seems a fairer way to tax all of us for the usage of the roads.
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As we move to a world where the majority cars are EV's (maybe later hydrogen powered) how do you charge by emissions which is the current way of doing things. I suspect that road charging would work by monitoring only major roads outside of built up areas so whether the infrastructure would need to be as extensive we have yet to find out. The beauty of Road Charging is that it can be adjusted, by the type of vehicle, the time of travel and could also take into account any congestion/LEZ areas that a car travels through. All sounds a bit Big Brother if, as I do, watch detective series it seems they can pin point you mobile phone would monitoring where you have driven be such a big deal. Initially the set up costs have to be paid for out of taxation but will pay for themselves as time goes on. Unless we have a new Government with a commitment to introduce such a scheme (no indication from any party yet) it might not happen in the next 10/20 years. By then AI will probably be predicting where we are going before we do
David
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DK, it is not just data from your mobile phone that can be tracked but from many of the more expensive cars, where all movement, be it in the road or the opening and closing of its doors, are relayed, from the black box in the vehicle, to the Cloud.
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DK, current VED is only emissions based for the 1st year. After that It’s a flat rate of £180 for any car registered after April 2017 with a surcharge for “luxury” cars over 40,000.
Hybrids and PHEV have a £10 discount, and zero tailpipe emissions vehicles (BEV and Hydrogen fuel cell cars) are exempt until 2025.After 2025, all cars produced after 2017 will have the same flat rate.
Completely agree on road pricing….
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It’s entirely feasible, just maybe not desirable for some. For others the “constraint” of only travelling 200 miles or so a day might be part of the attraction…
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I would get on with that strategy well👍🏻. I’m a planner re destination, once arrival is achieved I’m a ‘go on a whim or set off & see what happens’ type . But I plan with contingencies factored. If as I expect the travel distance will grow exponentially then I will get an EV with an eye on possibly replacing my pick up with similar before the cut off time re ICE. I hope you continue to share your EV journey, I have alerted others I know to your experience. Your updates are akin to a YouTube channel sans moving pictures😂
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