Wild Isles
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Yes you do, you are not stupid. You ignore the facts because you are one of the facts who is part of the problem not the solution. It is way easier to feign ignorance of the issues than to face your part in them. You will never change & I will never change we are polar opposites.
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I think the ancient areas in question were naturally almost treeless due to their acidity and the low nutrient peat and shallow soils, trees did not do well here . The timber for ship building came from different areas not the High Peak or elevated North Yorkshire Moors. What trees growing there were poor quality. There are areas in the NYMs which do support forests but not the very tops. Much of even the forested parts however were denuded further to create extended shooting estate land.
Worst still was the replanting of those Sitka stands Fish refers to. Nothing to do with environmentalists, more to do with greedy land owners seeking grants to plant non natives with little if any ecological value.
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There is a fundamental difference between me and some of the posters here. I have no time for the big estate pheasant shoots or the Red coated hunters who take part for sport and networking. What I and my fellow upland farmers do is protect out livestock, maintain a control on the rampant fox and crow population. Doing this gives the nationally endangered ground nesting birds a fighting chance. So successful is vermin control that there is now scope to harvest 120 eggs to reintroduce curlews to south east England where they are extinct. The theory that if you leave the predators be until they have depleted all other animals and then they die out is flawed. You cannot get those species they have exterminated back and there is the nub of the problem with loss of wildlife today. The rapid declined can be traced back to the political, blanket, Fox Hunting Ban
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I understand your dislike of the red coated brigade but I think that the main point is missed, it’s not about leaving the predators to sort it out, humans caused this imbalance and we need to sort it with nature in mind. The ill perceived need for fox hunting was a result of our meddling, our messing with nature and then an enjoyment, ceremony and pomp was created around it, it became the norm. It’s not normal or natural. We need to find that better way to restore that balance. It can be done and in some areas it is being done.
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As I said David, not all areas were capable of growing trees of the quality needed. Some areas were. In Lincolnshire we have some excellent lowland heather heathland rich in species but poor in trees. Not all of the higher Peak District was forested either. Possibly those areas you mention were!
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001l940
A very interesting programme on ancient trees this morning on radio 4. Our Viking ancestors were keen on tree removal for all their building and ship projects, they were quite prepared to move wood around their known world. They probably had a good time in the uk!
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I think he is talking about areas where the ‘right’ management is taking place I his opinion! He has explained what this is in several previous conversations and broadcasts. It’s all about balance and proper rewilding! He explores what this is very well in my opinion. Do I need to provide another link to his opinions and beliefs?
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I agree, man’s intervention in the Peak District started Centuries ago, but there hasn’t been a deal done on a large scale to make it a more diverse wildlife area. Yes, they were denuded further. Huge swathes are private as well. Visitors are not actively encouraged even to this day. It’s no wonder the great trespass occurred in PD. I regularly drive the Strines area, and the whole area is covered in Keep Out Private Property signs. When you look at the names of Land Owners, they are usually prefixed by Duke of this, Earl of that….. that or Hedge Fund millionaires.
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And let’s not forget that Iolo has over the years worked for and still supports the broad objectives of the RSPB, an organisation you apparently know all too well. Particularly when it comes to upland environments like those you talk of he has been a champion of the right way to rewild.
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Here is some excellent news, a river rewilded, re wriggled and rejuvenated. A lovely area in Cumbria, tranquil and not visited by the hoards and within relatively easy reach from several CaMC sites. The fishermen amongst us will really appreciate this initiative and returning nature I’m sure.
Humans managing the chaos of nature as it has been called. Still needs careful attention mind. Much more needed!0 -
Another reason why we have it just right. No huge landowner but a series of family farms. The vast majority is "Right to Roam" and provided you dont have a dog to worry sheep very welcomed. We dont have much of a problem with wild camping and the DOE kids use it extensively. Thats why we wont allow the outsiders to try and change our ways.
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And that’s where the nub of the problem is. What is right for one person is wrong for another. The real right way places nature and the natural environment at the very heart of the challenge, anything which misses will not help that bigger picture of decline.
Collectively we all need to get a grip and focus on the real problems facing nature today across both the individual environments/habitats and the nation as a whole.
The current situation is dire, we are in the bottom 10% of nations globally when it comes to the loss of nature. There are rays of sunshine mind like this river restoration project. It has nature firmly in its focus.0 -
Thanks TDA. . .But🤷🏻♂️🤔.
So, a bunch of rich £Millionaires own massive chunks of our Country-they then charge other £rich folk to use the land to shoot wildlife, then the Govt give them £Millions of OUR taxes to ensure they keep excluding the very tax payers that are funding them out of the area because it is their property. Geez this Country is just too soft on exploiters like these people🙄
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I only speak for my area. Nothing like that. Our problem is the blue thinking rewilders who try to impose their will on our land. The lot with that big war chest from Hampshire who tried to impose their will on the whole of Mid Wales have alienated us all and the barriers are now permanently up. We do our own thing in our own way and from what we see we seem to have it just about right.
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Land management comes in all shapes and forms, communal or single ownership brings in it's own challenges. I don't like the term rewilding, it seems to look backwards to so called better times but our land has been changing for millennia. Regeneration is perhaps better, restoration maybe and also improving the environment in general not just in the countryside. I feel urban areas miss out, there are not enough wildlife corridors. Every new tree and shrub helps safe wildlife movement and I'm not talking Lynx or Beavers just birds, small mammals and insects.
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You make some very good points there Brue. Sadly the name rewilding has been under attack by those who see it threatening their own interests and my goodness how much vitriol they can spill aiming personal insults and accusations around. There will be an interesting court case taking place soon but what a waste of money and time that is.
I hold that the philosophy behind rewilding in the true sense like Iolo describes is good but I too now prefer the term restorative nature. Wait a while though and that too will be attacked by the few. We can’t let the bullies win, nature deserves better!3 -
Exactly Rocky. That’s why it’s so interesting. The whole governance stinks. There are just so many institutions with their fingers in the pies…..royals, the church, aristo’s, coat tail clingers, wannabe hooray Henry’s from overseas, super rich football club owners. All exploiting the British tax payer, and exploiting wild creatures.
There will be some good projects carried out, but the bottom line is preserving a privileged way of life, primarily attractive to those with a lot of money. I read the other day, that because of the impact of COVID, Avian Flu, grain prices, some shoots might be looking at £100 a shot! Huge money indeed.
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+1👍🏻, why do we pay £100 million for Charles 3rd coronation when he has £1.4bn personal wealth😳. I just don’t understand it. I’d not vote to cancel the royals but they should pay for their own lives.
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I quite like Charles, it’s in his upbringing to rapaciously hang on to all things royal, but he seems to have a decent heart, he’s possibly the best of them all, apart from Anne. I prefer a monarchy to elected millionaires anyway. Heaven help us if we ended up with a Trump or another Boris. But we best get off this subject😉
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We have both £millionaires & Royals, to throw money at. I thought the Queen was wonderful, she was one of this Country’s biggest assets, She invented the word regal & was regal personified, the rest-not so much🤷🏻♂️
apologies for the drift-I’m done👍🏻
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- Just in from Lambing so not been through everything. I do like your new word Micky. . Its just what me and my kind have been doing for decades, quietly, no so called celebrities jumping on the band wagon and no grant chasing. Goodness me we agree on something. Cup of tea next.
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I can’t claim ownership of that term, Fish. It’s one the RSPB and others have been using for a while. To be honest it’s just a relaunch of rewilding from a slightly different angle. It was never about apex predators but the anti brigade used this angle to rubbish the concept, attack the advocates, spread misinformation and then hoodwink others into believing it was a threat to all.
However I too like the word and concept as it focuses on those true nature needs, rather than those of the privileged and vociferous few who wished to protect their assets and claim public money in doing so.0 -
Rewilding became a dirty word when Bojo's mate who was in charge of DEFRA illegally released Wild Boar and Deer on unfenced land and they invaded his neighbouring farmers land. It was under the umbrella of" rewilding". He was the person on the board of the organisation protecting the countryside. The Grant system even under the EU was always favouring non food production. The big land owners could afford to employ agents who systematically raided the pot. It is worse now under UK control. Favours non agricultural use, ie game shooting, horse breeding and other marginal interests. The big landowners get the most but as we read here do the most damage to the countryside. The tree planters are the latest to feed on it. Incorrect trees, in the wrong place is OK provided they tick the right box. The majority have no empathy with the countryside and just see it as another income stream. They even call it greenwashing!! So before you castigate us small farmers who at times dont get the wording right, look at the system.
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When the ceremonial fox hunting and game shooting fraternity saw it as a serious threat to their desires and traditions is when the condemnation and ridicule set in fish and they did a good job of swaying opinion against what was a noble ambition- that being rewilding from the bottom up. it was a deliberate ploy. Thankfully many sensible and informed folk saw through the fake accusations and prophecy of doom these anti rewilders pedalled.
Just for the record I’m not against fox population, after-all we’ve messed the balance up but it has to be done in an humane way and without the pomp and circumstance of old. Even the RSPB recognise this need but their efforts associated with the culling of any uncontrolled populations of creature is again used as tool to criticise and suggest hypocrisy. They have removed rats, foxes, mustelids etc from several areas where humans have introduced them and this has helped saved some endangered species across the world. Unfortunate but much needed! We cause such problems!0 -
Just heard that Series 2 of Wild Isles will happen. So enjoyed the last series, so informative and thought provoking. We need more like this to get that better and more informed understanding of what we are doing to our world both close at home and further afield.
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