Missed opportunity on Tow Car of the Year
Having read the recent Tow Car of the year in the AutoExpress / Caravan and Motorhome Club collaboration, there was a sad omission. The inclusion of Electric cars is very welcomed as this is the direction we seem to be heading. However, for me, the most important piece of information is how far can the electric car pull a ladened caravan with standard items and an awning before needing a charge. The details given for solo (without caravan) are useful for normal day to day car use but not for towing. This information will become critical when planning a trip and the frequency of stops. Finally will anyone from the club's hierarchy start talking to service station developers to provide a caravan park whilst the car is being charged. The charging points I've seen so far do not seem to cater for caravans.
Mr H
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I guess it’s difficult to quote range as, just like ICE cars, range varies depending on terrain, other traffic, the weight of your unit and how heavy your right foot is.
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Yes there are many variables in ranges but some sort of indication is necessary as they are doing with ICE cars now. I read recently of a trial a caravaner did where he managed to to get just 100 miles before needing a nearly full charge. That would mean stopping twice on a journey from London to Exeter, plus the same on the return.
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Mr H
What competitions like Tow Car of the Year can't provide is "real world" information as they are pretty limited in nature. Have you seen this discussion? https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/club-together/discussions/information-technical-tips-advice/towcars-towing/towing-with-an-ev-trip-report/ and perhaps Andrew Dittons YouTube Channel here. Both will give you an indication of how journeys are coped with. Not sure how widespread the towing of caravans is yet with EV's but obviously the provision of charging points en route where you don't have to unhitch the caravan is going to be important and you would hope the CMC and C&CC were on the case?
David
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Have you read the threads by Chocolate Trees?
I wouldn’t rely on any reviewer's opinion, personally and I think only your own research will rule a particular EV in or out.
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David Klyne
Thanks for providing the link. ExcelIent post,I had missed it. For me at 78 I think I will stick to my diesel until there is a significant infrastructure improvement.Cant be done with all the planning needed. And to have to disconnect the caravan and have someone on guard? Even on a smooth flat pitch my wife and I cannot turn the caravan round without additional help. My typical stops are around 200 miles and I still have plenty of fuel left.
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The charging points I've seen so far do not seem to cater for caravans.
As an EV driver, I would agree with you. We don't tow with ours as we have a camper van, but our local Shell Garage on the A55 Expressway into North Wales is in the process of commissioning four EV charge points, tucked away in a tiny quadrangle away from the main fuel pumps. Rhegedd at J40, M6, has the EV points in a tight corner of the top tier of the car park away from the fuel pumps, and we were at Tebay services recently and again, their EV points are tucked away. None of these main holiday route EV points are accessible to a car with caravan hooked up.....
If I towed a caravan I wouldn't drive an EV.......yet.
I'm guessing that over the next five years the position will reverse and the EV points will be at the forefront and the fuel pumps tucked away to the side/back.
But we ain't there yet......
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I think touring caravanning will become cost prohibitive, and towing journeys requiring battery charging en-route will simply be too much of a challenge. Those investing in fuel filling/charging stations will cater for the majority of motorists without a caravan. Space to park a caravan would be more profitably used as another charging bay.
As for car of the year competitions, considering fully the needs of towed caravans, the majority of motorists would not want to know.
The club has its mind increasingly on other types of more commercially viable accommodation.
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There was an item on Anglia TV ? This evening where they advised that there are over two thousand five hundred public chargers. of which over five hundred are fast chargers in the Anglia region and one in ten are out of action on most days . which is way above the failure of ice fuel pumps
And untill those that cannot have a home chargers it is going to be a problem for them until the infrastructure is vastly improved
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Mr H. I kind of agree that the TCotY competition should include some range guidance, as should each magazine review of a tow car (electric or otherwise). But to TW and DKs points, range is so impacted by external influences rather than the car its self, it gets very tricky very quickly.
I still believe strongly that ADs position is the right one - you have to ask is the range "enough for me". And that question is so open to variables as to make reviews including range meaningless.
For example - I am getting about 140miles towed range (100% to 0%) from my EV now, but that is with 18 months of practice towing with an EV, and knowing what I am looking for. I have towed 260 miles in a day and could do more with my EV, but it would be more that I am prepared to drive while towing (I decided that years ago in a diesel). Our last trip away (2 weeks ago) was 2 of us, just over 75 miles each way. A doddle in an EV towing, and we charged at the CL (with permission, and paid for the service on top of the pitch fee).
If I towed a smaller outfit (say an Eriba or Pennine trailer tent) I think I would get (some, may be a lot) more range, but we like the space of a 1550kg Unicorn. I could also tow the smaller van in a far less efficient manner (higher cruising speed, more aggressive breaking, harder acceleration) and get a lot less.
If - like AD, you tow 90% of the time and regularly to the continent with 400+ mile days, an EV is probably not for you. If you tow sub 120, with the occasional longer trip, or are prepared to tow for longer, but work a bit harder, maybe you can take advantage of the benefits.
The 1st question to ask is "why do I want an electric car?". Once you have that answer, understanding the rest gets a lot easier.
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AD, I agree again. The type of touring you do is a big factor here.
On out last trip (Charity Barn CL in Minchinhampton - can recommend it) we left home on about 95% and arrived with about 28% - pouring rain all the way made for an "expensive" tow. But 28% fir us is still a good 50 - 60 miles range solo. We charged later that day in Stroud on a public rapid charger while looked round the town. Effective charging time was 0, but cost closer to the price of petrol. Trips out over the next days to Bristol and Dursley had a bit of extra charging thrown in, again mostly while doing something else.
We topped up at the CL over night before we left for home to 90%, and got home in mild sunshine with about 40% left.
For such usage an EV is great. Had the CL been an overnight stop, we would have use the same charger in Stroud, but would have had to head to it and made a dinner out of it, rather than charging on the CL. Of course - if that is what you are used to, it's fine - but quite a different thing to just stopping for a supper in the van, sleeping and heading on early the next day. But equally, if it were such as stop, we would not have stopped there.
In the end - its as personal a decision as which van you have, or which car brand you choose.
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Overall the pollution, during use, of EV's is substantially reduced which is probably a significant motivator for people. The manufacturing aspect does, however, reduce that. Whilst EV's may be cheaper per mile currently, it is unlikely to remain so. Government will have to replenish their coffers from vehicles somehow. If you are after cheaper motoring, EV's are probably not a magic bullet.
Towing with an EV, unless there is a quantum leap in range, will mean getting used to sub 200 miles per day touring. Possibly less of an issue in the UK but those dashes south to the sun are going to take longer.
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Again, I agree AD. Making the night stop part of the holiday would be our plan too, and it's exactly what we have done in the past when we have needed a stop. On our way back from Ayr to South Northants we stopped at Barnard Castle for a night - but had the chance to explore the town. Indeed Ayr its self was an added stop on the way back from Fort William (Bunree), which was in essence a stop from Kyle of Lochalsh (Morvich).
These days, if I were doing that, I would look for my stop to be at a site within 10 or 15 mins of a rapid charger. That would give me the option to stop and pitch, drive the rapid and charge while exploring the area near the charger, and then be ready for heading off the next day. If available, I would granny charge overnight for as much of a top up as possible, but It would not be the end of the world if I couldn't.
But - I still agree that if 90% of my towing were in that model, and towing were 90% of my driving, an EV might not be the right choice.
I guess, back to Mr H's original post, seeing more "official" features from the club on towing with an EV, the benefits and drawbacks, would be great. I know there is a bunch of knowledge out there (Andrew Ditton, and others), but having it in the club magazine would be very helpful.
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I was reading an article online yesterday about the EV6 which concluded that the realistic maximum range whilst towing was around 100/110 miles. Until that figure doubles, I suspect the strategic and logistical plan that journey entails will be more complex than most people will be comfortable with.
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I believe it also recommended that to mantain longevity of the batteries efficiency that EV's are charged to 80% max and refrain from running below 20%, this will also much reduce the range for towing.
The charging to 100% and running to below 20% would suit owners who change thier EV every few years and dont care, but what are long term consequencies for the used EV market with unknown levels of battery charging/maintainance.
Also what is the effect of winter caravanning on EV range? not many ev reviews touch on this subject.
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I think you make a very good point. If I wasn't a caravanner, I would certainly be looking at buying an EV, and although some people on here have made a very strong case for buying one, there is still the cost of purchase, the faff of recharging whilst towing on a long journey and longevity to be concerned about. There is always a petrol station around the corner, but a charging point that is accessible with a 7 metre caravan?
Technology moves very quickly, and its difficult for the man on the street to fully understand what level he's buying at, particularly if buying second hand. I have a Samsung mobile phone that is now 3 years old, and the battery is getting weaker all the time. Is it reasonable to assume that batteries in a car would depreciate in a similar way?
I prefer to buy new or newish cars, and run them for 10+ years. I'm replacing our current car with a new diesel after 7 years, and will probably keep it until either the EV technology and infrastructure has reached or similar level, or hydrogen becomes an option.
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The battery in my EV carries an 8 year warranty and the battery is cellular meaning that just the duff cells can be replaced if necessary so it’s not quite like the phone batteries we’ve probably all despaired of.
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The only surprise there is that it’s not to be introduced sooner.
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Be interesting to see how they do that. Will it be a flat rate for all electric cars? I think they will have the adjust the point where the so called luxury extra tax comes in, currently at £40,000. EV's by their very nature seem to be between £6/10,000 more that the same ICE versions and could be a disincentive for people to change. No doubt it will all become clear in time. With all Budgets it's usually the following day where you get the nitty gritty detail as opposed to the Headlines.
David
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I could never understand why EV's were exempt from the RFL apart from a HM treasury loss leader. Well all good things must come to an end. It wont be long before there is an additional 'green tax' for charging EV's. And lets face it if we can afford to spend the 6-10k premium for an EV (even more for an EV that can tow) then why is paying RFL a problem afterall they are using the road, expecting an improved infrastructure to support it and contributing to global pollution.
With the possibility of a 23% fuel duty rise next year maybe we won't need to book 12 months in advance to get a pitch. And lets face it the filling stations will be making it 23% on the pump price not the pre-levi cost per litre
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I personally would increase the tax on big 4x4’s & low mileage luxury cars, trucks & leave EV’s tax free as an encouragement to go greener. Good for our health & good for the planet👍🏻
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