Unfair practice
We've just arrived back early from a 7 day tour staying at a CL in the Cotswolds. On day 3 our heating in the Van broke and we couldn't get an engineer to come out. We stuck with it for 2 nights but left early because it was blinking freezing in the Van. Throughout our stay there was only us and one other pitch in use.
Before we left I asked the site owner would they allow us to move our last 2 nights to another date, I did not want or expect a refund and never asked for one. The site owner refused to credit us with 2 nights and we lost our money. If the site had been full and the owner had to turn business away I fully understand and would have not asked, but as I mentioned, throughout our stay there was always 3 pitches available.
Given the circumstances I feel the site owner was unfair & not in keeping with the ethos and attraction of CL's, when I asked I said I would only use the 2 nights credit during the low season, I would not have rebooked say for August or Easter.
CL's are supposed to be the jewels in the Clubs crown.
Comments
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Although you might feel hard done by, unless there were T&Cs in place to the contrary, I think the site owner is quite within his rights. It wasn't his fault that you left early.
That's life, I'm afraid.
PS. That's the reason many of us carry a fan heater as emergency back up.
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Your van heater is likely to be 2kw as well on electric. The only difference will be the heat won't be ducted around the van. You should be able to get one for around £15 and may even find one that's thermostatically controlled. Most will also blow cold in summer.
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Although the CL owner may well be within their rights it does seem a bit mean of them. I'm sure it's a site you now won't be returning to. I look forward to reading your review of the site
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It does seem a bit mean to me as well. OK, it was your decision to leave early, but a little bit of give and take helps the world go round. If the owner didn't want to credit both nights against a future stay, then I think it would have been fair to have charged for the 1 night, as per the CAMC on club sites, if you leave early. That way you would have had 1 night in credit and returned at a future date; I know I would be happy with such an outcome.
I too look forward to reading your review.
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we have a six berth van and with the good insulation they have these days it's quite surprising how good a 2Kw fan heater is. We have one as a backup but tried it once in a previous caravan to test it out.
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We also always carry a secondary method of heating our outfit. We have had our onboard heater pack in twice when using caravan. Both times we simply bought a small fan heater and carried on. I think perhaps the CL owners might have expected you to do similar.
Given how prevalent it is for things to break down in outfits nowadays (heaters, water pumps, etc….) it could be a costly exercise for CLs to have to pick up the tab for those who go home. Mind, like others have said, we have been offered the chance to move our booking in the past if something did occur. But it’s a different world out there now, both Club and other Sites.Definitely try a small heater for back up FB, I think you will be surprised how efficient it can be. Folks used to use them to heat awnings at one time before those other kind came along😉
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Our experiences of CLs in similar circumstances has usually been a positive one. Either help in some way given, or the offer to move our dates. Having said that, CLs are now far busier than they have ever been, but lots are far more “business” minded now.
We still have an offer of five years ago to go back to a nice CL we had to depart early from when my Dad was dying. We neither asked for or expected a refund at the time as it was full. I wouldn’t remind them now either, it’s just part of touring for us, things outside your control happen.
Sorry you had to leave FB, but a mention in the review at least forewarns others that an early departure will still be charged.1 -
As a CL owner today we woke up being fully booked for June, then a cancellation, we contacted the visitors either side of that cancellation to see whether they would like to add anymore days to their stay, both had no record of their bookings despite email trails to the contrary and therefore would have been no shows, so we now have vacancies for most of June, this is not unusual so please don't be so hard on CL's. Our DD for electric is now over £900 per month, our house insurance is £1100 as we have to have business insurance, we have to be members of the CAMHC and we need PL ins, plus water, rubbish and emptying the septic tank mowing and maintenance, one lady recently left 2 days into a weeks stay due to fitting their battery the wrong way round, she got home and asked for a refund, we said we would refund any days we could let, she then said she would report us to the CAMHC, we did refund days we let but she runs a business and her T&C's state any pets collected early will not incur a refund, why would you leave a review stating that if you leave early expect to pay, the days of running a CL as a hobby are long gone. Recently we have had people charging their electric cars after dark and not asking.
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Why not put your unexpected vacancies in the late availability thread, Gibbo?
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If it’s as bad as you say gibbo, (and I have no reason to doubt it) you need to start taking a deposit of some sort, and ensuring that folks who book ahead understand fully your terms and conditions. The CL Owners group could probably advise you more, contact Ted at Cholsey Grange CL.
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Gibbo, when using this website it would be good if you added your site's name and web address, or a link to your web page, so that those reading your posts and might be interested in booking know where you are located and how to contact you.
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I don't think it is fair to expect a CL owner to refund or credit you with 2 or 3 nights (£30 -50?) because you cannot click and collect an £18 fan heater from Argos or similar. To then accuse the CL owner of not being fair is ridiculous.
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Oops sorry gibbo, I recognise the site now, one where you have been very fair with us.
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Hi we are Barleywood CL north norfolk, we have been running our CL now for 12 years, most of our guests are regulars and friends and have booked years in advance, we have decided not to go down the deposit, metered electric route, our choice, although this may have to change, we did find when we took deposits most people expected them back if they cancelled. We do treat people more than fairly, but that should be a two way street, this seems to be the worst year ever for last minute cancellations, no shows. Oneputt see you soon.
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You could always point out it is a ‘no refund deposit’ as you may have turned away custom👍🏻. I believe most folk will see your fairness reciprocated & if it isn’t then do you really want super selfish people as your guests🤷🏻♂️. I am another who will not expect any refund for my decision to leave early. Nor if I cancel would I expect my deposit back.
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Whilst I understand your loyalty to your many returning customers the only way forward really is to have a deposit system, even if it was just one nights fee per booking? It just concentrates the mind of the booker. Perhaps also make it clear that deposits and any nights paid are non refundable if the customer changes their minds. There is always room for a goodwill decision for example if someone is taken ill and has to return home urgently. I appreciate that deposits introduce another layer of administration and if you go down that route perhaps think about electronic payment in some form. Unfortunately there is always an element who will try and take advantage!
David
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I have sympathies with both sides in this situation. Perhaps we are fortunate in that the CLs and CS's we use - we use regularly - and as gibbo says, the owners have become real friends over the years. Since I always pay by bank transfer shortly after we arrive - if we had to leave early, I would have just written that off and thought nothing of it. I can understand the economics of running a CL and it's not always possible for them to re-let a pitch at short notice, especially as this year doesn't seem so busy as it was over the last couple of years.
On the other hand - there has been the odd occasion when we have had to cancel a booking and although I have offered to pay the full amount for our stay, this has always been declined in the knowledge that we will be back before long.
I think if I had been in the OP's position, I would have just shrugged it off and gone merrily on my way and then at some future time decided whether or not I wanted to use that site again - probably not.
I have to smile as I think back - a few years ago - one owner cancelled our planned Easter stay because the grass was very wet - with only a few days notice. (He gets a bit precious about his orchard behind the farmhouse and we all joke about it.) I hadn't paid a deposit so no harm done and we found somewhere else - but that Easter turned out to be the hottest / driest on record!
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My understanding is that providing the CL's abide by the conditions of their Certification they are free to run their CL's as they wish. The Club is often pointing out to us that CL owners are independent traders and what they provide (to minimum standards) how much above that minimum standard they go, how much they charge and the T&C's offered are very much up to the individual CL owner.
David
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We recently stayed on a CL that normally takes deposits at the time of booking but this one has altered that condition simply due to the covid situation and informed me that they wouldn't ask for payment for the 2 nights until the week before we were coming. I had no problem paying by bank transfer and if I had cancelled would not have been seeking a refund.
We were on a CL a few years ago where 2 women scarpered when the owners were out to avoid paying for 2 nights. Large expensive looking motorhome and a night out in a pub for a meal so they weren't short of a few bob. I asked the owners if the club would help but they said they have given up asking the club as they've never had any help when this sort of thing happened in the past. I do think that deposits are the way to go with discretion by the owner to return depending on circumstances and timing of cancellation. This has been a change in position by me from previous years as I feel that society has become more selfish and there is less consideration for others, particularly to those whose services or products we are purchasing. I fully understand CL owners wanting to protect the 20% income they are getting for a CL pitch.
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One of my reasons for asking was that it is imperative that prior to accepting a booking the CL owner / operator makes the T's & C's fully available to the customer. It is the only way the customer can make an informed decision as to whether to book and both parties can reasonably expect to avoid a disagreement if things don't go well for either.
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It wasn't the CL owners fault you had problems with the van and couldn't get them fixed. Neither was it their decision to cut your holiday short. That's all down to you!
We've been in similar situations and never dreamed of asking for refunds or switching dates.
Sorry but you need to accept it and chalk it up to experience.
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Whilst they probably should be clear there are still a lot of CL's that are run as a hobby or side line attached to another business/farm. Having said that if you book to stay somewhere, pay on arrival for your stay and then decide to leave early T&C's shouldn't need to come into it. It is a question of honouring an agreement that was surely implicit in the original arrangements? The situation the OP found themselves in put the onus on the CL owner to provide a solution which they were obviously unwilling to agree to. Would the OP have acted differently or not gone to that CL had they known there would be no movement of unused days to another time in the year, I suspect not?
David
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This is where the lack of a contract causes a problem. In the situation described neither party can be right or wrong as there was no explicit nor implicit agreement regarding early termination of the stay. In those circumstance I would not have expected the owner to provide a refund but for the camper to request and even expect a credit for the unused nights was not unreasonable.
The whole CL system seems very hit and miss. For example the home made T's & C's of Barleywood, the example you used above, are so one sided in favour of the owner, that they constitute an unfair and therefore unenforceable contract.
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…..in your opinion, of course.
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