Toyota RAV4 PHEV towing impressions
We finally towed with the our new car today albeit only about 15 miles home from storage. Nevertheless it gave some useful early feedback. First impression is the car is quiet and has plenty of grunt and romped up the hills without breaking a sweat. The key issue is an unsettled ride and achieving the 70kg noseweight limit. I need to play with tyre pressures however any suggestions (other than the obvious) how to get the noseweight down on a Swift 580 layout (rear bathroom, transverse island bed) most welcome, I already travel with minimum ‘stuff’ in the locker.
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You mention an unsettled ride. The only time in towing a caravan since 2001 that I have ever experienced an unsettled tow was due to low tyre pressure. This was even when in my early towing years I had a very low nose weight.
Where is your water heater. If in front of the axle then you could tow with the water system primed so it would add some weight to the nose.
Colin
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Your initial post was not clear, "The key issue is an unsettled ride and achieving the 70kg noseweight limit" to me reads you cannot achieve, ie get up to the 70kg.
Colin
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Caravan. Tyres set at book pressure advised by Hymer. They later admitted these were incorrect. Little consolation when you've been on the receiving end of a wobble.
Colin
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Me too, thankfully! (For me below 70kg is an indicator all is not well).
I am referring to the ride in the car, the caravan seemed to tow ok albeit we were not in holiday load mode. I have taken a few more items out of the front locker but only to the extent of 2-3 kg weight - however every little helps as they say!
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Having towed about 60 miles on Thursday I now have a better indication of how it feels. First off the power is superb, at least as good as any diesel I have had including my previous car, a 300bhp Volvo D6. Very easy to creep over the speed limit on the motorway and excellent acceleration. Stability when passing HGV’s or being passed is also very good with hardly any noticeable impact on the outfit. Economy is showing 27mpg in non EV mode towing and just over 50 when solo. Not bad for a 2tonne petrol SUV!
The 2 challenges still to resolve are nose weight and car ride comfort. It is jiggly and gives the impression of being over-firm. Whether it is possible to fit alternative shocks or springs or even after market self levelling has yet to be explored. I inflated rear tyres to their maximum albeit the payload in the car (including allowance for nose weight from the van) was probably around 300kg out of a payload limit of 470. I may reduce the tyre pressures slightly for the return to somewhere between normal and max.
With noseweight I am really struggling. I got it down to 80kg and gave up. I do not want to simply put everything in the back of the van and end up with a tail happy outfit. The front locker is almost empty and very little in front under seat or overhead lockers. However the fridge and microwave are forward of the axle so stuck with those. I am not putting everything in the car to simply transfer it into the van on arrival. If it needs that to resolve the problem then either the car or caravan have to be changed.0 -
Wow I hadn’t noticed this very low nose weight of 70kg when i was looking at the rav 4 I don’t think i have ever seen one that low, guess that’s due to the batteries in the rear.
Why this wasn’t addressed by Toyota at design stage is beyond me they have had a huge towing customer base for many years so you would think they would have designed this in with maybe a optional rear self levelling suspension for the towing customers to opt for.
hope you get this sorted at a low cost
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I think the location of heavy equipment in the front of the caravan axle defies the target 70Kg nose weight.
As a simple experiment, how about removing everything from the front gas locker (other than one bottle of gas). You then know whether it is possible to achieve.
In order to get our nose weight down below 90Kg, I remove the following from the gas locker and return it when on site or caravan stored: Hook up cable, heavy tool bag containing all small bits and bobs, 2 levelling ramps, and the Alko side lift jack. This leaves us one 3.9Kg gas bottle and about 7Kg of light water/waste pipes.
Regarding tyre pressures, how about trying lower rather than higher pressures?
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We have found that possibly an unsettled ride? Is down to road surfaces, especially on busy roads with many HGVs and with their weights with many at 44tonnes there are more. "tram lines" that make for not a nice tow, as the c/van is forever what feels like "swaying" as it tracks the "tram lines" as the wheels are not normally as wide apart as HGVs
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If you read my thread you will see I already removed all unnecessary stuff from the front locker. The only items other than the gas bottle are small bottle of toilet chemicals, empty water canister, plastic drain pipes for when on serviced pitches, winding handle and 3 small levelling blocks. Total weight is less than 5kg. In practical terms there is no where to carry them aft of the axle. As for road surfaces, those haven’t changed that drastically in the 8 months since I was last towing however I may try reverting to the minimum pressures on the car, nothing to lose!
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Roads and the caravan that is being towed do certainly make for a different experience we in the years of towing quite a few different caravans can certainly comment on the experience which I posted for you to consider
I have not commented on why you did not first check the tow bar limit of the tow vehicle
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We carry both gas bottles only when the single is getting low, I solve the resulting heavy nose by stacking the front seat cushions (as many as required) behind the transverse bed against the bathroom wall, 10kg of cushions moved from the front to beyond the bed gives a reduction of 15kg nose weight and with less than 1% of the total mass moved rearward this should not cause any pendulum type problems, also it takes a matter of moments to put them back when on site.
I am also concerned that you may be finding out why the RAV4, despite having a good kerb weight, is only given 1500kg towing limit. You are obviously having to load under your caravan MPTLM are you loading the caravan up to the 1500 limit or do you have some headroom?
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The actual towed weight is gross trailer (caravan) weight (MTPLM) less nose weight. The nose weight is part of the car payload. In my case 1550 less 70kg = 1480kg. And if no one believes me regarding legality then do the research. As for the car nose weight I was fully aware of that before buying. What I didn’t anticipate was the extreme difficulty getting the caravan down to 70kg. I have towed 4 different vans with 6 different cars in the past 10 years and this is the first time I have such issues with ride and nose weight. I will start with reducing rear tyre pressures and may look at different tyres with softer tyre walls. In respect of nose weight I am struggling but will speak to my caravan engineer about resiting the mover and maybe even investigate weight savings from a smaller lighter leisure battery.
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The Swift 580 has a short front lounge area (5'1" seats so a foot shorter than the 480) with a kitchen behind it. It's the same as our 480, but the kitchen (fridge microwave and cooker) is all further forward. The Alde is right at the front and battery and motor mover box just behind it. We struggle to get our 480 nose weight down below 90Kg so the 580 is going to be a real challenge.
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If you can live with the cost, a lithium battery is am immediate weight saving.
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The return journey yesterday eve was better. Nose weight was between 70-75kg and I had the rear tyres on the minimum pressure setting. Towed rock steady again albeit could tell the tyres were softer the ride is still not great. I suspect the problem is down to car suspension design and set up so probably limited options to improve it. Economy showing at 27mpg on a fast mostly dual carriageway/motorway journey (A64/M1) with one long A road uphill stretch. My next trip to Loch Ness in just over 3 weeks will be a better test so unless I have a brainwave will leave things alone until then.
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We have experienced similar problems with our Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV is not quite as stable as our Ford Kuga 2.0 diesel on the rear, you will get used to it, correct me if I am wrong did you not post your previous Volvo PHEV was unstable on the rear ?
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The issue with the Volvo was specific to the R Design sport suspension which also comes with larger wheels and skinny tyres. In hindsight and after research the R Design spec is far too firm and not recommended if towing. The non sport set up got good towing reviews especially for handling and stability. However It is not stability that is the issue, more unsettled ride on all but the smoothest roads. Every imperfection seems to come through the car but only when towing. When solo the car is fine and quite nimble by SUV standards. The tyres are 235/55/19 so not excessively low profile. I will keep experimenting!
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The worse the road surface the lower the speed but in extremis 20mph. There are some on the TOC Forum with the non plug hybrid who tow but so far no one who tows with the plug-in has cropped up. Have also tried searching under Suzuki Across which is the same car with Suzuki badges, nothing.
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UPDATE- we have now towed from west Yorks to Loch Ness via Edinburgh and back south to Melrose. Economy is excellent ranging from 22mpg into a strong headwind to 28 and a typical 24-25mpg. For a 2 tonne petrol SUV towing a 1500kg van that is very impressive. Solo mpg in ICE mode is over 60mpg. Stability from passing vehicles and cross winds is excellent and performance is license threatening - very easy to creep up to 65mph + without trying and hills are a doddle. The fly in the ointment still is the ride which I still need to address although tyres on the lowest pressure setting helps a bit. Another issue is the small tank (45 litres) so fuel stops are more frequent than I am used to with previous tow cars normally having 60 litres or more. Overall though I have to admit there is life after diesel for towing.
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Just a thought, where are the batteries located. Are they at the back of the car?
Colin
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After a bit of searching it looks like the previous generation RAV4 is just over 100kg heavier as a hybrid opposed to petrol only. If you input the vehicle onto the whattowcar website red stars come up as the vehicle had a low towing limit.
If the newer/your current model falls into the same layout of weight distribution then it would appear to a novice such as myself that a hefty amount of extra weight is at the back end and not helping issues. Even though just within the rear axle the weight is not central as I'm guessing the rear drive may be electric?
I am aware that this is a potential issue with for example the Honda CRV. I believed this to be a potentially good towing vehicle until it went hybrid and a 750kg max tow limit was applied. I have been told by Honda dealer that this will be addressed for next year.
Colin
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