Interview with a CL owner
Comments
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Had a look at it PD. Many interesting points but nothing that any regular user of C.L.s wouldn't be aware of.
I was reading an article today about VW's new all electric iconic campervan due out later this year. I suppose in a few years you may get more C.L. owners being prepared to allow changing on site but for a fee. I do agree with Ted that electric consumption and pricing is going to drive prices upwards far more in the next couple of years than anything else, although to give it some balance I was speaking to a C.L. owner on site in December last year when they told me that their price was going up by £2 pn after being static for 4 years. I asked whether electricity usage was responsible and she said that wasn't the primary reason as they probably made enough "profit" in high season to cover more usage in low and mid seasons. Surprised me a little.
There are still over 2,200 C.L.s in operation so I think there will still be enough variety to cater for most tastes.
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EHU is no doubt the biggest talking point at the minute. What we don't know is what proportion of the site fee is the charge for electric. We know that cost charged shouldn't be higher that the cost at source so for a same cost fee for electric all year round then the comment from the cl owner in the post above makes sense. Cost will even itself out over a year just as it does in my own home. This has also been proved by caravanners who have used metered electricity in different seasons.
I've just been looking at a website for site bookings and in some cases there are two prices quoted for several sites, one with electric and one without and the difference is generally £5 at my present rates that's around 25kw. I can't ever use that much in a caravan. It's very close to that difference on club sites with off grid rates. New England Bay pitch fees are around half for no electric and that is all year round That reduction today is £3.80 and yet in a weeks time that goes up to £5.60. I can't work out why there's a difference of £1.80 per night just one week later.
I think this subject will be much debated with the imminent introduction of a tiered price increase for electric.
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Regarding Ted's CL (and this is a repeat of his original post which he put on here last year I think?) Ted's CL is metered, we've stayed there and the metering works well. You are allowed a certain amount and pay the difference if needed. We managed on the allowance. We've stayed on another CL where we had to feed the meter, that was ok too. Metering reduces wastage and excess use.
I've no idea how CAMC works out inc. electricity prices on it's sites.
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I've no idea how CAMC works out inc. electricity prices on it's sites.
I believe you can make a request for this information and they must obllige, but I don't see that his would be useful to anyone and view it as a waste of time. Metering is the way forward.
peedee
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I've no idea how CAMC works out inc. electricity prices on it's sites.
Probably calculate the average consumption, double it to account for the heavy users and then charge everyone that rate.
I didn't use a single CAMC site last year and, being self sufficient with solar & lithiums, I am unlikely to use one this year either. Why is it necessary to have expensive facilities blocks when almost everyone has these, often sumptuous, bathrooms in their own vans?
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almost everyone has these, often sumptuous, bathrooms in their own vans
I must be one of the few then. Maybe it is necessary because people who actually use club sites like them like that? And judging by the threads about not getting a pitch must be true? And to be fair you will have to admit many non club sites are the same, some ae even more luxurious we have been told.
Or your almost everyone often (having) sumptuous bathrooms isn't quite true? I always look at quite a few caravans and MHs when I go to my local dealer for anything (part of the fun) and while the latest ones are good they are still 'confined' shall we say?
And and of course hot water isn't on tap (pun intended) all of the time even on a service pitch, and the hot water will run out at some point especially if there is more than one of you (not necessarily at the same time - certainly not on club sites - I'm sure that's in the T&C
) and yes there are ways around that, water, water off then soap up, water back on, but really I want to enjoy my showers without any worry or water on/off. We actually use our shower room for storage and hanging up wet towels and often wet coats.
Probably calculate the average consumption, double it to account for the heavy users and then charge everyone that rate
Is that your banking background coming in?
In which case they're onto a nice little earner aren't they if you think about it? So why should the club change to metering?Also do your batteries heat the water up for you?
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CY, I don't question your ways as you have the freedom to do what you wish. I would like to think you reciprocated that attitude.
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And judging by the threads about not getting a pitch must be true?
Lots of pitches available on both of the club sites that we have just been on, including at a weekend, so those complaining about not getting a pitch must be just looking at the most popular sites at peak times.
Whatever Ted says there are still lots of CLs with EHU and H/S out there that are not charging prices of £20 or more, and do not have metered electric either, in fact 4 of the 6 that we have stayed so far on this trip have been at £15 pn.
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If I understood what Ted was saying correctly I think he was pointing out that those CL's with electrics still charging under £20, and certainly around £15, a night probably don't fully realise how much the electric is of the total site fee?
I thought it also interesting that he suggested that as far as site fees are concerned people shouldn't think that a full facility CL should be substantially cheaper than a site with the same facilities!
David
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I have been on sites with metered electricity and some with a standard EHU. I must say I prefer the latter as I don't have to worry about how much I use and when is it going to run out and I have to buy another token for the meter.
if we are going to penny-pinch on electricity supply, are we going to stop there, or are we, as a Club, going to go on and penny-pinch on other services that we may or may not use.. Can we get a reduction if we don't use the shower blocks/toilets. Do we get more off our site fee if we never taker a leaflet from the Information room? You catch my drift?
For goodness sake people. You are on a site to enjoy the peace and tranquility and the facilities the site offers, The pitch fees are standardised and set to offer a good all-inclusive value pack for whatever you need on site. if you use it, that's fine, if you don't use it, that's fine too, it makes it cheaper for those who need to use it.
I'm assuming that site fees of course are set, according to running costs and facilities provided, not as a standard pricing that makes a huge profit at the members expense.
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Good post +1.
Even if there is a huge profit there are no shareholders so the profit is put back into the pot for refurbishments and/or new sites.
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I am guessing that the forecast huge increase in energy costs are of little interest to you then BE. I am sure that those meters in your home will be a bit of a focus surely in terms of what you are going to have to pay out? Your ideology would have you happily paying your neighbours fuel bills along with your own?
It’s not quite as simple as your post might indicate. You might be happy to pay whatever the Club deems it’s prices should be, the main driver in this instance being the rising cost of fuel. Not everyone will be able to afford a price hike of up to £2.50 per night, and for many, it could mean giving up touring, or at the very least, not being able to take as many nights away.
Giving Members the option of how they can tour, be it either with or without EHU, a half way house of metering, the option of a Site with or without a toilet/shower block, and adjusting the prices accordingly, gives a better range of options to more Members.
Not everyone wants or needs absolutely everything that a full facility Club Site provides. Not everyone can afford to tour paying full facility Club prices. A touring outfit for many has been a safe option lately, and the Club openly admitted at the last AGM that it has benefitted greatly from new memberships. It has to strike a balance between those happy to spend whatever it asks, and those who are going to see their living budgets a lot more stretched this coming year. That’s why some choice would be a good thing.🤔🙂
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Unfortunately many of us have vehicles, either tow cars or motorhomes that guzzle up fuel and with diesel prices under continued threat just getting to sites is going to be increasingly expensive for some. Add this onto site prices, rising food costs, VAT back at normal levels throughout the leisure industry and some will be questioning costs in general.
As this is a CL thread we're in the right place to find sites that are not normally as expensive as main club sites although CL owners will undoubtedly be raising prices to cover their costs. However and thankfully CLs do provide an alternative to Club Sites and if CL visitors are thoughtful and more careful with energy usage I hope that CLs will remain viable.
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Agree brue. It the very amount of choice that CLs offer, be it location, pricing, different facilities, etc… that keeps those who love them Members of the Club. 😁
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Man came here to cut down a sick ash tree - his first price included 20% VAT and another 20% for the income tax he would have to pay. His second price was for cash payment and much more reasonable as it didn’t include either of those two items. Some small time CLs might be able to leave out those extras too and undercut the bigger businesses.
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Taxation would be a whole lot fairer if there was more transparency around how the income raised is used, and who and how the spending of it is overseen🤔
I am all for taxes in principal, if it gives the majority a better, healthier and longer life. But somewhere in between the collection and the spending lies the problems. ☹️
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I thought it also interesting that he suggested that as far as site fees are concerned people shouldn't think that a full facility CL should be substantially cheaper than a site with the same facilities!
Well, David, he would say that wouldn't he, as he is running his as a business/major income maker which he is attempting to promote, whereas for others their CL is more of a hobby, which as long as the income more than cover their outgoings on the site then they are content with that.
As far as CL owners not realising the amount electric is of the total of site fees is insulting to them, they are not that dim I'm sure.
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"As far as CL owners not realising the amount electric is of the total of site fees is insulting to them, they are not that dim I'm sure."
Totally agree Nellie. We are booked in to two CS's shortly. Both have increased their prices from £18 last year, to £22 this year. We know both owners very well, having been going there for many years and I know that they are most reluctant to increase their prices for fear of pricing themselves out of the market (especially with the 'tenting' fraternity). Nevertheless, they tell me that they have had absolutely no option after receiving their latest electricity bills - so they are very much aware of the economics of running their sites.
The last thing we would want is for either of these sites to have to close.
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‘Man gave a cheap as chips offer to cut down Ash Tree, an accident occurred & destroyed west side of Orongery. Cheap Tree man had no liability insurance & he’s disappeared’. That’s what happens when business folk are pushed to cut costs beneath a living threshold by greedy people☹️
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I have been interested in all your comments and would be pleased to answer any specific questions regarding the running of a CL. Please email me directly via my club page website email link. Better still, book a stay at our site (advance booking recommended!) so that we can share ideas over a pint. www.cholseygrange.co.uk
With regards to pricing, as some have pointed out, a few CLs are run as a hobby and are happy if they cover their costs. Those owning them may not be very aware of their actual costs and they also may not charge for their time. They also may be reluctant to raise their prices. What many of these 'hobby' owners like is the company of caravanners returning year after year. Hence, you will continue to find CLs without meters and ones charging well below 'market-price'. Hence a somewhat 'distorted' market.
However, those CL that have invested in the facilities that an increasing number of members would like, such as EHU, hardstandings etc. and are fully-aware of their costs (and time) spent providing an excellent service and customer experience, should be charging appropriately to show a small profit and allow them to continue to maintain their sites.
I assume that the last thing you - as members - would like to see is a site owner saying to themselves when they get their next electricity bill (or realise how much their mower will ost to replace) is that running the CL is not worth it, and decide to close down.
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Price increases aren't entirely due to electricity costs. Yesterday I booked a non EHU CL that had increased its price from last years book price of £10 to £13. To cover fuel costs for the mower perhaps.
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Probably a combination, rates, water and sewage and time. If they are charging for that surely they are entitled to at least a cost of living rise. Plus of course, even if nothing had gone up, if other providers in the area are charging more it makes sound economic sense, unless you start loosing business.
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Hence, you will continue to find CLs without meters and ones charging well below 'market-price'. Hence a somewhat 'distorted' market.
But who sets the "market price"? You, Ted? Like any market those that sell/supply the goods set their price, some will set it much higher than others for what ever reason they think fit. It does not mean that It is a 'distorted' market unless there are some who wish to control the prices charged for their own benefit when they see others attracting sales at a lower price than they have.
We'd have recently spent 9 nights on a couple of full facility club sites where we have paid, on average, less than £17:50 pn, much lower than the "market price" envisaged by yourself.
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Not all the price increases are due to rising supply costs. Market forces are at work as well. Pitches have been at a premium these last 18 months, lots more folks are getting into camping and touring, as it’s seen as a covid safe method of taking a holiday. I have friends who are CL owners, and they are honest enough to say that they have put the prices up a tad because folks will pay it. I don’t doubt that costs of provision are rising, but other factors are at work as well, much as they are with other commodities currently in high demand.
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Nellie, I thank you for your response, but would like to clarify what I mean by a 'distorted' market. As I said in the post where this was quoted there are generally 2 types of CL Owner;
Type A - those that run their CL as a hobby, and perhaps are simply wishing to share their love of caravanning with others and cover their basic costs.
Type B - those that run their CL as a business, and are keenly aware of all the costs involved - including their time - and seek to make a return or profit
There are very few other marketplaces where those providing a service do not seek to make a return or profit. I therefore believe that Type A owners, can (to a degree) distort the perceived market price by potentially under-charging for the service provided.
See the chart, which shows the distribution of price across 1,885 CL that offer EHU last September. The average price for an EHU site (in September) was £15.37 Most sites that I know who provide EHU are raising their prices by £3-£5/night in 2022. My personal view is that any CL providing EHU and charging less than £15/night is probably not covering their costs if they provide a reasonable level of service (cut the grass / empty bins / pump waste tank etc.)
Moving onto your other point, you say that £17.50 was charged by a 'full facility club site'. I assume that the sites in question have more than 5 pitches and can therefore amortise their costs across a wider customer base. If you are drawing comparisons, I always feel it is better to compare apples with apples where possible.
And no, I do not set the price, I just try and report the facts available, from my perspective as an owner. What I do seek to do is ensure that owners are fully aware of all their costs so that they feel they are (if they wish) making a return that will allow them to carry on providing a site, to you the member. It is a daily commitment.
There is a further argument - often debated by us before - that small, exclusive CL sites, that offer a bespoke and relaxed service - should in fact be charging more than a large commercial or club site where you (are sometimes) rammed into what can look like a car park. Very few CLs though charge more than these large sites.
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For the avoidance of doubt, I subscribe to the "labourer is worthy of his hire" principle and was content to pay £13. I am also a believer in a fair and not exploitative price for goods/services.
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