First off Grid trip
Hi all Happy New Year,
After some advice wrt powering our van whilst off grid for a week next year. Currently weighing up options and any advice would be great!
So I've got a few questions (apologies if these are basics but we are new to caravanning). We have a solar light system from our tenting days that we could use for lighting so that shouldn't be an issue, but we're going to need some power during the week to power up various gadgets etc. plus we want the fridge up and running. So:
Is it more cost effective to run the fridge off the gas or leisure battery if off grid?
If we were to run the fridge of the gas bottle how quickly would we run out of gas?
How long would the leisure battery last if we ran the fridge off it?
Is purchasing additional leisure batteries the way to go, or are there cheaper power alternatives that we could hook the van up to whilst we are away?
Thanks in advance
Comments
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You will need to use gas for your heating, hot water and fridge. The fridge only runs off your leisure battery when connected to the car with the engine running. If the fridge did run off the battery, it would drain it in no time at all.
Use your battery for lights, water pumps and any 12v sockets.
Check out the threads in Tips For Making Caravanning Cheaper for ideas on solar panels and so on.
Incidentally, you can choose your own user name by visiting My Profile.
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Suggest you take a good look through the above. Loads of good advice there.
Generally speaking run your fridge on gas and solar panels to keep your battery charged.
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You need gas for anything that requires heat, this includes the fridge. No one seems to have asked when you are going. This time of year I would expect to use around 2kg of gas per day and my solar panels not to keep up with demand. We spent 17 days in August off grid last year. The batteries were fully charged by 11am and used about 10 kg of gas. When makes a huge difference.
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With a freestanding 60w solar panel we’ve toured the Highlands and Western Isles for seven weeks, at least half of which was off grid. Three weeks entirely off grid in Yorkshire and many two week breaks all over the country. A 6kg gas bottle lasts us for about ten days for fridge, hot water, occasional heating and lots of cooking. We’ve changed all our lights to LED’s. The link that DaveCyn has given has loads of information. You might also be interested in the ‘CAMOG’ FB group which is all about off grid stuff. You don’t need to apologise for asking questions - we all started off at the same point. Best wishes for all the lovely memories you’re about to make!
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Apart from using solar to replenish your batteries, no-one has mentioned refillable gas bottles. If you are going to spend significant amounts of time off EHU, then a refillable gas bottle will save you quite a lot compared with the cost of exchange Calor bottles and pay for itself in no time. For a caravan, with limited payload available, the best choice would be "Safefill". A 10KG Safefill bottle weighs the same as a Calorlite (if you can get one!) but hold almost double the amount of gas. The gas will also cost you somewhere around 25% of what Calor charge. Unless you want to run things like microwave, toaster etc. a lithium battery set-up is overkill. Over the summer months, a 150W solar panel, a decent 130AH deep cycle battery and a refillable gas bottle will see you right.
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Make sure you change to LED lights if you have an older van. Also run your fridge efficiently, cool it down before you start (if you can) and don't overload it so that's it doesn't have to work too hard. Don't leave the water heater on, switch off the gas between usage. Our 100w solar panel has seen us through very well even in low light, buy the most efficient one available, some are better than others.
There are other things that help lengthen stays, solar chargers for devices, solar and wind up radios, lamps etc. However we live much the same with or without power just by being a bit more careful with usage.
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Therein lies the problem. The OP has asked about going off grid for 1 week in the future and is presented with a big shopping list. I absolutely agree that a safefill will save money over the long term. The last one I bought cost me £190, so you aren’t going to get pay back from1trip. Personally if I was going off grid as a one off I might trawl the small adds for a 11 or 13kg gas bottle to reduce costs. I don’t think you need 150W SP in the summer is needed 130Ah battery my 17 nights last summer was achieved with a 90Ah battery.
It might not be ideal and it is not the setup I have but a lot can be achieved with a little.
My Advice for summer use would be.
A spare gas bottleMake sure your battery is in good condition.
Led lights nice to have but not essential.
That’s about it.
Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.Ps If you are going on a field rather than a site, levelling ramp and blocks might be a good idea.
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Thanks all really appreciate your responses.
looks like an extra bottle of gas, check the lights to make sure that we are using LED (she's an old girl so probably needs them), battery check and possibly a solar panel to keep the battery topped up is in order. Any recommendations for a easy to fit solar set up would be great. I'd rather a portable system than anything fixed to the van. Having googled and looked through the suggested pages there is plenty of choice out there! Thanks again0 -
We bought a 60w folding pannel for our 2nd van and 1st off grid trip. This one.
That was 7 night at Tregennis Uchaf near St Davids in August with 6 people. 2 adults , 4 children. 60w was sufficient to charge phones and the inevitable teenager electronics (Nintendo DSs). We didn’t take the TV IIRC.
Remember, when off grid, none of your 240v appliances or sockets will work. If you want them to, you will need a suitable inverter to power them and a big battery with a decent solar array. My advice would be don’t bother and just plan on using 12v stuff only (including suitable 12v to USB outlets for charging stuff.2 -
Loads of solar panels available on EBay. We were comfortable using a 100 watt suitcase panel but found it a bit lacking on really overcast days so added a 50 watt panel. Battery is class A 115amperes.
10 kg Safefill bottle takes care of our gas requirements at a much lower cost than rip off Calor.
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If you move around a bit, change sites every 3 days or so, OR use a MH regularly to visit places, then it's relatively easy to stay powered for many days as the batteries get charged that way...
the acid test, a fortnight or more on a THS type site without moving the van at all. You'll definitely need a good solar system and a couple of good batteries to be able to sit 'indefinitely' like that...it gets even harder when you change Ebike batteries every other day....
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you need a good size solar to keep your battery topped up, I recommend 160 watt
but if you are going in the winter you will also need a generator as the solar puts out next to nothing at the moment
go for 7.5 kg . safefill we use about 5 k.g. in a week, the larger one will be tight to get in your locker
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I wouldn't use ebay solar again, a lot of them are cheap ones from china
try Photonic universe, check if the club still gets you discount with them
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+1 Photonic Universe, Sunstore Solar are good too.
All solar panels (and controllers) aren’t the same, they vary in type and efficiency, it’s worth doing some research before you buy.
Generators are a contentious area…. a lot of folks don’t like them and you may find you don’t have too many admirers when pitched in peaceful off-grid locations!
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Why do you need a fridge for a week? Campers with tents live outdoors without one easily enough. Shop daily for perishables - or eat at a pub, but cooking on a gas hob for a week won’t exhaust a cylinder. Charge your phone in the car when you go out . Buy a portable Camping Gaz lantern. Live simply. Many of us caravanned for years before there was any grid for us to go off it.
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Good point. There are many products sold all over the world by respected brand name companies, with products or components made from materials of undisclosed origin. You can get a Certificate of Origin in Europe, for example, for products containing entirely components made worldwide. China has many infant companies, it's true, but also great technology and manufacturing know how. Remember that a few years ago we spoke disparagingly of "Gerry built" products, but look at Germany now.
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I think you'll find the average family unit in a tent will plug into the EHU and many take mini fridges and electric cool boxes with them. Some sites provide freezer facilities but if you're into very basic camping then I suppose you'll manage without although I think the OP wants a bit of comfort.
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What a dreadful thing to do! I would not tolerate that on a pitch near me.
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Generators and ICE engines aren't the most environmentally friendly way of charging a battery, not to mention several hours of racket for your neighbours.
if folk want to be off grid (as an ongoing camping choice) and require the battery to be topped up throughout their stay, then a solar system seems the best way to go.
the savings on lower fees at CL and THS type sites will rack up at £10 or more a night and soon pay for that install.
furthermore, if this becomes a regular thing then the (typically Calor) gas supply will soon become a noticeable expense and investigating a refillable system like Safe fill (for caravaners) will be the next improvement.
again, using gas at less than half price of Calor will also bring a smile to your face.👍0 -
Back packers maybe but not most campers. We tented in Europe through the 80’s and 90’s always off grid. However, you could buy blocks of ice, or get your cold packs frozen, either on site or in a nearby shop. Those in a decent cold box preserved food equally as well as a domestic fridge.
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We got our solar panel from Photonic Universe https://www.photonicuniverse.com/
Honestly, 60w (ish) is ample if it’s mainly for lights and charging devices. You would need a bigger one if you have a TV but don’t forget the bigger they are the heavier they are.
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There is a tremendous difference in performance between a free standing panel and one mounted on the roof. The freestanding panel will be much more effective when deployed because of the angle it is deployed. A 60W panel would probably be just enough if freestanding. If roof mounted I would go bigger because the difference in cost is going to be fairly minimal.
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agree with Boff re performance...facing the sun is best...but remember a stand alone panel needs to be turned throughout the day (the line of sun moves) and also needs to be made secure (locks/cables) or someone will have it...
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Is there such a thing as a ‘sun tracker’ on a small enough scale for LV’s or am I guilty of way too much SciFi watching BB?🤷🏻♂️😬
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Ideal is obviously south, rule of thumb for angle is latitude + 15 degrees in winter, latitude - 15 degrees in summer. There’s not a huge difference between efficiency on flat mounted -v- 30 degree mounted panel in summer .
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