Weights and payloads
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Agreed current payloads of most caravans are insufficient for more than a few days away, combined with the paltry MRO allowance one has to ask if they are fit for purpose. I carry most load in the car.
My first van had around 25% of MTPLM available for loading. My latest 10%, Cheap axle and flimsy chassis!
Does insurance void if axle limit is exceeded? Some may need to watch out!
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I doubt whether insurances will get involved with maximum permissible axle loads of a caravan because the MTPLM will always be less than or equal to the axle load limit. Therefore, if the axle load limit is exceeded, then the MTPLM will be exceeded, too, and that would have possible consequences regarding insurance coverage.
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Thanks to AD and Lutz, it seems movers are just as prevalent away from UK.
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It would appear that the '85% rule' is even being 'taught' to 16 year olds
Found this question in a standard's review for HM (she like to delegate these things) from the Welsh exam board. It's the second time that a caravan towing question has appeared so it would appear that the person writing these questions appears to be caravanner?
Good exam question I thought - mathematically speaking.
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Great stuff. Might we see caravan/MH weights and towing law on the curriculum in future?🚐😄
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Yes, accepting these irresponsibly low payload allowances is in many ways our fault, but perhaps the two main clubs should start looking after their member's interest by insisting on more realistic payloads.
IMO they should also be campaigning against the arbitrary, illogical and generally unsafe 3,500kg B Licence limit. All this does is encourage these misleadingly low payloads, fragile construction and the use of the lightest possible towing vehicles. Has anyone actually seen a safety argument, or any safety-related evidence that this limit serves a useful purpose?
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I did an exercise for our 2 berth Swift Elegance 480 looking at the options list:
MRO: 1341kg, MAM:1467, payload:126kg
Essential extras on board van: Battery: 20.6kg, 2nd Gas bottle: 13kg
Swift Options: Bike carrier: 9.5kg, 2 bikes 26.2kg, ACU: 35kg
Other Popular Option: Motor Mover: 35kg TOTAL: 139.3kg !!!!!
Upgrade the MAM plate to the maximum allowable of 1500kg (which Swift charge you for) and the payload increases to 159kg, so that's <20kg for everything else!
That's about the weight of our small kitchen items such as crockery, glasses and cutlery, the stack and steady pads, a fire blanket and a fire extinguisher. Nothing in the fridge and everything else must go in the car and be transferred in and out for every move.
Alternatively add a roll-out awning and you are still overloaded.
OK, this full options list is a bit extreme, but in fact it is a struggle to keep below the uprated 1500kg MAM without any of the manufacturer's options (a 124kg payload if I put the Alko jack and mains lead in the car), let alone the bike rack (+2 bikes) and the motor mover we would like.
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In principle, I absolutely agree, but where I live, I have to travel some distance to find one open to the public. Some also charge a lot.
The main snag is that you will never generate a "test load' that truly reflects what always seems to emerge from the house when we pack to go away!
I have added up all our expected gear and that weighs a total of around 380kg plus passengers. So what is not in the caravan, is in the car. That too has a weight limit. I have two cars that can tow, one has a payload of 448kg and the other 510kg. The MRO includes 75kg for a driver (so I am over that!) and allows for 90% tank of fuel (I think). However, it does not allow for the towbar and electrics (25kg), any roof rack (5-10kg), any roof rack cycle carriers (4.2kg each), any top box (12kg), extra car mats etc, or any car tools (>10kg).
In my case, overall with either car, 2 up and 2 bikes is just about doable within both the car and caravan MAMs. 3 up and serious weight control (e.g only taking minimum F&B, a lightweight awning, no bikes, no generator) is just about doable as well. Acceptability of all this depends on if you are planning on staying at one destination, or plan to tour between multiple sites.
Finally, one last little worry: Car axle loads. Overloading the rear axle is still all too easy to do and you can't measure that at a public weigh bridge. Put all the heavy items as far forward as you can and the light bulky ones to the rear (bear in mind that the caravan nose weight will be 80-100kg and right at the very back!)
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Why can axle load not be determined at a weighbridge? I've seen lorries being weighed half on a weighbridge to do just that.
Is there anyone who would like to collate data on "roadside" weighbridges that members might like to call in at while travelling?
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It depends. If I have booked at a site with ELU, I leave it at home (which is true for most trips away), but if we are going (or may be going) to use a CL site without an ELU, then I have one, so I would like to take it.
One of the most demanding for weight has been the Badmington Horse trials. No ELU (hence the genny) and limited ability to go shopping for F & B (lots of
, lots of clothes for all weathers and 5 days on site. Then there is all the shopping from the show ground stores to carry home.BTW, events like that are going to prove a real challenge for all electric cars. They will not only need thousands of charging points for all the vehicles, but a power station to supply them!
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We have done a handful of nights, only 1 at a time, where we have not had EHU, just stopovers en route somewhere, but as we have no solar panel to top up the battery we otherwise stick to sites which have EHU. We do have a generator, but not for caravanning, we needed it when we were having our house built and kept it "just in case".
Other than at these horse trials, where I presume it is quite crowded and noisy, I would have thought that users of non EHU CLs generally prefer the quiet life and would not be too pleased to have a generator nearby. Or do they all use them?
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With more and more CL sites providing EHU, the need for a penny is reducing, but we have taken advantage of some nice low cost rural sites in the past where the genny keeps us going in the evening.
As for Badminton, there are hundreds of caravans, Mrs and horse boxes (with living accommodation). That's a lot of gennies and inevitably, some run them for too long and at unfriendly hours. However, the main problem is the noise from the cheap "open frame" type of genny (mine's reasonably quiet). How people can afford a 6-figure horse box, run a horse and yet only pay for a cheap noisy genny is a mystery to me!
BTW, in an earlier post (01/06) I referred to the issue of keeping the car within its MAM. I did not make it clear that you need to deduct the nose weight from the car's payload when towing. Knocking off 100kg for that will make a significant difference.
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840kg came from a sales brochure. Hymer then go on to list everything over basic spec along with weights. A fellow owner of same van with some extras had his on a weighbridge to get an actual weight. By the time I'd ran through what I/he had/did not have it worked out my theoretical calculation was within a few kg, ie a single figure discrepancy.
Whilst this is not the most scientific solution the level of error is good enough for me to live live.
Colin
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2017 Rimor 14P - 4 berth, plated at 3850Kg.
After a European trip I drove to the Whetstone weighbridge still fully laden in holiday mode with the approximately 90Kg of water and 50 litres of fuel and the two adults were about 160Kg.
Whole Gross: 3560 Kg.
Front axle: 1680Kg.
Rear axle: 1880Kg.
I sent these figures off to Michelin and they kindly sent me back a set of tyre pressures for various weight loads.
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I'm obviously carrying too many cans of baked beans. Mine came in at 3460Kg and I haven't got the dropdown bed in mine. Do you carry a spare wheel? One wonders what the tolerances are on weigh bridges. As they are designed to weigh substantially heavier loads than our relatively puny motorhomes, are they sensitive enough to pick up the odd 20-30Kg?
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Colin - you are right to be concerned. Payload was the biggest issue for us when looking to buy a motorhome then a caravan. When I picked up out new Coachman Laser 575 I took it to a local weigh bridge (weight tolerance +/- 20kgs and was pleasantly surprised to find it came in very close to Coachman's predicted unladen weight making allowances for A/c, leisure battery and motormovers etc. Everything which has subsequently been put into the caravan has been weighed.
The industry faces huge challenges over weight in terms of increasing payload and decreasing MTPLMs to enable PHEVs and electric cars a chance of towing.
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< MTPLM 1350kg, payload 300kg, I can up plate it to 500kg.
I doubt even my wife could defeat that!
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That is one of the big problems as you say facing manufacturers worldwide, it has been seen in UK vans for years ,where buyers want all the latest bells and whistles in a four berth and or fixed bed ,and tow it it with a a small family saloon
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But that's more of an issue concerning the MTPLM and not payload. Even a caravan with a relatively big MTPLM are known to suffer from an inadequate payload margin. If the buyer wants a caravan with all bells and whistles it should be obvious that one needs to look out for a suitable payload margin which may drive the necessary MTPLM up to a level where a bigger towcar would be required.
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If you don't know the weight of the Caravan (when full up in holiday mode) how do you determine the tyre pressures for the weight they are carrying ?
Or isn't a Caravans weight as critical as a Motorhomes weight on each axle ?
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