Is it time to change hardstanding policy?
As you are all no doubt aware, we are able to book pitches with or without awnings and those where fully serviced options are available. We remain unable to specify a hardstanding or grass pitch on the vast majority of sites.
We have had the discussion regarding hardstandings before, however, circumstances have recently changed and it is time to review the topic.
The balance of Motorhomes to caravans has changed, the former is becoming increasingly popular. Due to the weight of their vehicles, not surprisingly, many Motorhomers need a hardstanding, especially during wet conditions.
The club membership numbers are growing (who can say if this is sustainable or not?), putting pressure on the pitches available and for some, taking away the spontaneity of touring.
As members, more than ever, we need the site network to be capable of functioning at or near capacity such that we are able to book a stay.
The pandemic has driven up membership and demand for site nights. Due to adverse weather, which it appears no one can predict in the UK, some sites have had to cancel members bookings because grass pitches have been flooded and unusable.
In fact, we recently had our holiday cancelled by the club because a number of grass pitches had become unserviceable due to poor weather. Due to a lack of availability of an alternative site at short notice, we will have to forgo our break. Not so bad for us, but for families that have fixed holiday dates etc, a real issue.
Grass pitches suffer from the relative excesses of the British climate (hot, cold, wet) and sometimes abuse by customers (groundsheets, pets).
With more pressure on the club facilities and the Site Managers, is it time to change more grass pitches to hardstandings or, at the very least have the option to pre-book a hardstanding?
Comments
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Whether grass pitches should be changed to HS is debatable but the option to book a pitch by surface type should have been made available years ago. If C&CC can do it, surely CAMC can!
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Another one here who would always prefer a grass pitch.
I understand the reason motorhome owners want gravel and there are a couple of compromises.
1. a gravel pitch to park the caravan / motorhome but narrower so any awning would be on grass, or better still
2. Two narrow strips of concrete / gravel to park on so there will be no issues with getting stuck in mud. This could also be done quite cheaply.
If CMC site ever end up as a sea of gravel my business will be going elsewhere.
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Hard standing can be very useful. However, the wall-to-wall gravel look isn’t easy on the eye, particularly when a site has a lot of it. Not so much camping with nature as camping in a quarry. However, you can have the best of both worlds with those grass grid systems. C&CC seems to use it quite a bit. Booking option seems sensible.
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“ The balance of Motorhomes to caravans has changed, the former is becoming increasingly popular. Due to the weight of their vehicles, not surprisingly, many Motorhomers need a hardstanding, especially during wet conditions.”
Speaking as caravanners, we prefer a hardstanding when possible. I’d be rather upset if priority on getting hardstandings were given to those with motorhomes. Perhaps some pitches where there’s reinforced areas (can’t remember what the honeycomb stuff is called) where the grass grows through would be an alternative to full gravel hardstanding, and somewhat more attractive.
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I agree with you about booking a HS TW and always have done about that.
The new sites that the club has bought and then refurbished I believe have all been HS and there appears to be a rolling program of converting grass pitches to HS so over time I think this will happen anyway or the number of grass pitches will diminish to a smaller number.
It makes economic sense, they can be used year round, less maintenance and in my experience HS are more popular as on mixed sites grass pitches go last. Grass would be great if it didn't rain as much but even in summer (August in Cromer) I've seen grass pitches just churned up and out of action.
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It does seem sensible to try to arrange for motor caravans to be sited on hard ground due to their great weight. With the close spacing of many pitches and the six meter fire safety requirement we then find that conventional trailer caravans are also having to be pitched on hard ground with the attendant tow vehicle almost always parked on grass.
With coming and going the grass under the tow vehicle does get chewed up when ground conditions are wet. It would seem so much more responsible to site the caravan on grass as it is not likely to be moved for the duration of the stay, and put the tow vehicle on the hard surface.
Segregating motor and trailer caravans to different areas to effect a consistent pitching arrangement might be far more controversial even than whether one might book a hard surface pitch!
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Planning rules may prevent too many hard standing being introduced. Some sites may not be allowed any or the nature of the ground makes them unnecessary! I do agree the Club has been far too slow at making these bookable. I do prefer grass but have to be practical even though my motorhome is quite good at getting off wet and muddy surfaces. Some sites won't allow or the site managers do not like my motorhome going on grass pitches. I have been turned away at one Club site where grass was available but no hardstandings. I didn't have a booking and I didn't think it that wet but the site manager was worried I would get stuck and the pitch would be damaged. I ended up on a hardstanding pitch on a commercial site 6 miles further on.
peedee
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What folk don’t always realise is that there is no one fits all members opinion. Given clement conditions and free draining ground I would much prefer a grass pitch. Nothing better in my opinion and one to be treated well by the user for the next occupants. Hate to say this but dog owners please treat grass pitches with respect if you are using one or just walking your dog past. Not all dog owners are irresponsible mind but the last grass pitch I stayed on reeked of dog pee.
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Just for the record, I have a caravan. The growth in Motorhome users is more of a relatively recent development and illustrates that the CAMC need to address their needs but also those of other members who prefer a hardstanding.
The preference for a hardstanding is borne out of a practical need as opposed to a Landscaping policy by the club. Some of the members have previously eluded to surfaces other than gravel that are easier on the eye but achieve the same result.
Just a thought, pitches that are out of action do not generate revenue and therefore become an overhead cost which has to be paid for. The club members must find this money in either site or membership fees.
Either way, the consensus appears to be that there should be a choice of grass or hardstanding at the time of booking.
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For my part I would always book a hardstanding even in some cases paying the extra for a serviced pitch, did the same when we had a caravan. I seem to recall that the Club are planning to revamp the UK booking system for 2022 which should include the option to book a pitch type. (This according the the answers to submitted questions at the 2020 online AGM) If the C&CC can operate successfully by allowing you to book either a hardstanding or a grass pitch I can't see why the CMC can't do the same. Perhaps what concerns the Club is that the hardstandings will be wanted by the majority and if the only option on the site is a grass pitch many will vote with there feet and won't book? Within reasonable limits I don't think I would mind if there was a small price difference between pitches. I have always considered it an oddity that an awning pitch costs the same as a non awning pitch? The Club have already established different pitch price structure by charging (too much) for a serviced pitch!
David
Quote from the AGM Answers:-
Our current policy is very much based on all Members being able to choose the pitch
most suitable for their preferences from those that are available on arrival, with many
members able to pitch near to one another by arriving at similar times. Having said
this, we recognise that particularly during busy periods there are many members that
would like to see a more flexible pitch booking policy in order to guarantee certain
preferences, as even arriving at similar times sometimes doesn't allow adjacent
pitching. In addition, we also recognise that this policy encourages Members to arrive
as early as possible in order to choose their preferred pitch, which can sometimes
cause congestion. We are currently exploring options in relation to this policy, and
indeed the opportunity to specify hardstanding vs grass pitches is currently planned as
a feature of our new UK sites booking engine, which we are expecting to be available
in 2022.1 -
DSB, in his role of Council Member, continually pushes for the option to book a surface type. So far he's not been able to achieve this. If DSB can't do it, I fear we have little chance.
The trial referred to by Amesford is reputedly said to have confused members so it came to nothing. That's both insulting to members and a very feeble excuse.
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As I understand it, the experiment was quickly abandoned as the Club made the mistake of trying it in only a few sites rather than nationwide. This, apparently, caused a lot of confusion amongst some members and stress to the wardens who had to try and explain the system. As many members tour it was possible that there were different rules on the sites they were visiting as part of that tour. If the Club is to allow the booking of hardstandings they have to do it throughout the entire network.
David
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The problems that arose with the booking of hardstanding trial ,was mostly because as members can normally choose their pitch. ;and when hardstanding were booked it caused confusion if members were advised any pitch except ?those hardstanding that could have been booked for 5days or more later but had to be kept "free" for the booking unless the present arrival was willing to move to free up the pitch for the booking, if ttbe arrival was only for 4nights then there would no t be a problem. But site staff were at times given grief by some members
It may well,be with the system being developed. For introduction next year? Several quite vocal by some subjects may be solved?
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Our first preference is a grass serviced pitch, that is not available on the CAMC network.
Second preference a grass pitch, preferably with a geo grid surface to put the caravan on, with awning on grass. At home we built such a 'pitch' to store the caravan on. Free draining, 150mm MoT type 1 compacted, geo grid, top soil reinstated, grass seed, 10m x 4m. All for £800. Also used by local authorities for police vehicles / speed cameras / ambulance response spots on highways. It really isn't difficult to do.
Third preference is a hard standing, serviced pitch. pita to put the awning up on with the solid compaction CAMC do.
Fourth preference is a HS, where awning pegs can be easily installed.
Interestingly as we built the 'pitch' at home we removed a tree in the driveway and infilled the 'hole' with granite clippings (think ballast on a railway). Until the chipping have settled and compacted the tow car, a 2.3t SUV didn't have any issues crossing the chippings, however the single axle 1980Kg caravan would bury one wheel. This indicates wheel loading on caravans are likely higher than MHs, which probably shows poor control of a MH leads to getting stuck on non HS pitches
We never had issues on grass pitches when we had a MH.0 -
I cannot see an answer to this. I have a small caravan and like grass, but if I suspect the weather will be poor or I'm booking at the start or end of season than a gravel pitch is my preference.
The only problem is a campsite dominated by such pitches. Last year we visited Brighton and it resembled a car park, although a well kept one. I don't like camping in a car park no matter how good the facilities.
Colin
3 -
Of the two MCs we have had an Autosleeper PVC and an Autocruise coach built we did not have the choice of the amount of hardstanding as now on cc sites, and can say we did not have the problems some find with using grass pitches, and that included winter use
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There is one club site with grass SP, but I can't recall which one.
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A few years back while we were on all grass CL, a Hymer motorhome turned up. She made no allowances for the field being wet and expected to be able drive as she would on Tescos car park. Needless to say she got stuck. And had it not been for others advising her, she'd still be there now buried up to the axle spinning wheels. Some people are just stupid.
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Just maybe, if the club are going to make all sites look like expensive Aires, "hard standings" that will be used predominitely by MH users looking for a one night stand just to replenish/dump, the policy re booking should be for a minimum 3 night stay, commercial site i was on had a ratio of 3 MH's for every 1 caravan, most MH's only stayed for 1-3 days whereas caravans were there for 1-2 weeks, this could make it more difficult to find sites were you can book for an extended period say of 2 weeks if all slots are taken my MH's just visiting for 1 night.
2 MH's were staying in a lay-by close to the site and just popped on every 3 or 4 days to replenish/dump, expensive Aires at £35 per stay.
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I seem to recall that it might have been Belper?
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There are those that prefer hardstandings and those that prefer grass so if you you are able to book your preferred pitch surface everyone should be happy? But, the trouble is those that proclaim they prefer grass tend only to want grass when the weather is good. So it would be make up your mind time when you book!!! There would always be the possibility to swap to a hardstanding when you arrive on site if there was availability.
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Keefy Sher wrote "however the single axle 1980Kg caravan would bury one wheel"
That's a tad under a ton per wheel which is about the same loading as all but the smallest motorhomes/ PVC's.
I am currently on grass as it is the only type available where one can choose non EHU - not a CAMC site I hasten to add. I made the same choice on my last trip although the weather then had been drier. If track mats are used under the wheels, grass should not generally present a traction problem. Had I wanted hard-standing, it would entail also paying the EHU premium. EHU is becoming less and less a requirement with the increasing use of solar panels and lithium batteries in leisure vehicles. If we are to move to being able to book surface type, the choice of EHU or not should also be available. Never mind "How Green Was My Valley", how green is CAMC?
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Could well be, I just remember someone complaining on here about a SP being grass.
0
not sure re laundry but you had to pay to use the machines 