How green is my caravan holiday ?
Just watched Greta on the BBC and looking forward to our first UK trip out of lockdown this week to Cornwall for a week. I wondered if a monthly break in my caravan of 3 - 4 days, visiting sites within 100 miles is better for the environment than a main two week European holiday abroad by plane and two European city breaks by plane per year. Is caravanning "green" and how can we improve ?
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We can improve by staying home.
Driving around the country for no good reason other than to take a break in an LV cannot be considered 'green'. However, flying is far worse.
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Flight to Alicante, 0.62t of CO2 retun to UK
Drive towing at 25MPG with Diesel the for trip of 500k 0.23t
So in terms of emissions then driving hols with van is about 25% of the emissions of flying to Spain (assuming you drive as well whilst on hols). This assumes the energy used in hotel in Spain offsets the pollution caused by the construction of your van.
So travelling less distance uses less energy and causes less pollution, who would have thought it.
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I’m a believer in working to lessen our carbon footprint but the comparison seems a bit Heath Robinson P tbh🤷🏻♂️. Are the flying figures over 100 passengers per flight or 200🤷🏻♂️. How heavy is the vehicle & van🤷🏻♂️ & is a Moho or C/van more frugal🤷🏻♂️. What about the construction of the Plane is that considered🤷🏻♂️. It needs an expert answer from well calculated figures broken down-who knew👍🏻😊
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I couldn’t find any figures for towing, however comparing per passenger km figures, which are usually quoted, is misleading. On the face of it on just emissions of CO2 flying produces less. Although the flying figure is based on a full plane, so shared out amongst all the passengers and would double for a couple. Where as that would not happen adding a passenger to the car. Plus of course folk tend to fly a lot further than they drive on holiday, thus increasing the amounts even further. Then of course there are the high altitude effects that don’t apply to driving.
Clearly neither form of holiday is particularly green. However, it looks as though taking our MH to the Provence for a month will produce a lot less CO2 than a couple taking several weekend trips to Europe each year.
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The first thing I noticed about Phishing's figures is that it is 1500K to Alicante, so the car CO2 is three times the figure quoted. So actually not a lot in it. If the aircraft figure is per passenger, then a Moho/Caravan with 2+ people has the edge.
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I'm always puzzled by these threads.
It is sort of I'm going to be 'green' but I still need a holiday and rather than just get a bike and tent or stay at home I'll look at the figures and because one appears lower (to that person that is) my green conscience is appeased.
If one is really committed to being green then just stay at home?
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Unraveling the total footprint of different holiday modes is complex imo.The discussion is only comparing the additional footprint of fuel/CO2 and not the total environmental impact of the infrastructure needed to deliver ones preferred holiday.
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Being 'green' is not a black or white thing
of you either go or you don't. Being committed to being 'green' in my eyes must still allow practicability, do what you can in everyday life towards the goal but not to discard some of the things that allow us pleasure.I will not live out the rest of my life by staying at home, keeping a watch on the electric/gas smart meter monitor, or feeling guilty when pulling into a fuel station etc. But I will walk where possible, buy locally produced food rather than that that has been round the world twice.
Basically I'll attempt to do my little bit without it impacting on my remaining years too much, but I do understand and can see the mess we are in.
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yes you make some good points (I'm the same) but the OP goes beyond what you're saying and appears to be suggesting that one 'type' or frequency of holiday is better than another and should be the preferred method of holidaying?
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Perhaps the OP will tell us his views. I see he is around.
It's an old chestnut is LVing and being green and I don't see the two as being compatible, other than in terms of comparison with other types of jaunts.
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All answers are clearly considered but perhaps demonstrates how confusing this can be. It doesn't seem practical just yet to tow with an electric car or cook, maybe heat, other than on gas. Once we've arrived on site we try to use our bikes as much as possible.
I took early retirement and agree with Metheven that spending the rest of my time at home wasn't my intention. Covid lockdowns confirm that although the time has allowed me to give more thought to how I might spend a greener retirement.
I'd like to see the club take a lead and produce informed, responsible and reliable advice that is updated as the technology improves that can be used as a reference. We are all capable of making informed decisions based on our individual circumstances and for the greater picture.
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The age groups it seems, most who post on here are in, will be one of the last it seems, where we will be able? to use LVs as we know it,
Both clubs and many it seems commercial enterprises ,inc CLs and CSs are starting to put in pods and alternative types of accommodation some of the holiday parks are also reducing touring pitches in favour of static accommodation
The future it seems will be for small hibrid vehicles, touring and staying in pod type.accomodation
Full EVs are it seems way in the future, until they can be ""refuelled"as conveniently as ice vehicles with the vast amounts of money that will be needed to be spent on the infrastructure to make it viable for millions to own one
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There you go, then, you've answered your own question and appear to do the same as most of us. That is, carry on LVing whilst sparing a thought for the planet without taking the hypocritical stance of pretending to be totally green👍.
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Young Greta is an idealist and all power to her for raising environmental issues. Being so young she probably has not yet had to deal with the practicalities of life in general. That is not to say we shouldn't do all we can to lessen the impact us humans make on the environment but there will be limits to what people are prepared to give up. If the idea is that we become some giant monastic order living in a sort of permanent COVID lockdown that is lockdown that clearly is not going to work. There are many,many things we can do to reduce our carbon footprint but I suspect giving up or restricting use of caravans and motorhomes is hardly going to make the smallest dent in that aim. I don't fly anywhere so I can't reduce that aspect of emissions but I understand not everyone wants to go camping. I suspect what we will see in the future is price being used as a means to discourage us from doing certain things so they are still available but we might think twice about things because of the cost?
David
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It's always a good question to ask, caravanning has gone from very green (horse drawn vehicles) to very fuel consuming (large vans, large cars.) Same for " motor caravans" the bigger the van the more fuel demand etc.
Don't know about aircraft but at the moment we're enjoying clear skies and it's great to look up into the blue.
A sea trip maybe but it would have to be under sail....I'm not very good with ropes and knots.
I don't know what the club is doing, members seem to want the same as they have at home, so there must be a lot of energy wastage.
I'm happy to go away with a solar panel but many aren't...
I didn't watch Greta but I do feel for younger generations who want a different future.
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"I suspect what we will see in the future is price being used as a means to discourage us from doing certain things so they are still available but we might think twice about things because of the cost?"
Hi DK, And you may well be right as pricing, and linked aspects such as credit, has long been a tool to attempt control over peoples behaviour, however one downside is that you cant fool all the people all the time so making travel for the 'rich' only may not go down well!
Like others have posted we do our best to 'help' but the sackcloth is not coming out any time soon and it would be disingenuous of me to claim anything else.
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To reproduce or not is the key issue. Everything else is tinkering around the edges. It’s the sheer number of humans on this planet that will be its downfall one way or another.
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You could well be right about unable to do without, what is these days considered normal facilities ? ;there is a major power problem at FM and the Park on now ,and has been since about 2215 last night ,two huge ICE generators keeping the majority of power needed, if power off then all toilets have to be closed as sewerage is all pumped on the park and club site
There has been quite a bit if wringing of hands by site users ,as to how do I cope without power
I agree with posters who say Greta like many of the much younger generations, do not seem to have considered the practicalities , that would be involved to carry out what they consider "their right" to a better future in the timescale they want after centuries of not realising the impacts of what was being done (and some still have their heads in the sand in that understanding)
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Unfortunately our holidays have got less green as we have got older and this has been linked to ability to afford a different style, as I think might be the case for many. We have almost always camped, only having used a plane twice and things like gites a few times. For the first thirty or so years this was in tents with a relatively small car. In the last 16 years we have progressed from a small caravan to a larger one, with larger car and now to a MH. Although it does have the cleanest engine of any of the vehicles we own. Like others we do our best to minimise our carbon footprint. Which includes walking a lot once we arrive on site and rarely moving the van. However, it won’t include forgoing or cutting down on the number of trips, covid permitting .
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I'd like to see the club take a lead and produce informed, responsible and reliable advice that is updated as the technology improves that can be used as a reference. We are all capable of making informed decisions based on our individual circumstances and for the greater picture.
Advice on what exactly? How to be greener? Surely we can and do get that from other sources? Is it really necessary for the club to do that?
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- Forget gas, ignore the off grid gas guzzling disciples, go to sites with electric hook ups, plug in and use that instead. Electrify is green and clean, gas is a fossil fuel.
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+ 1 there Steve.
Same for us and will also include flying off somewhere when permitted.
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I must admit I haven't read the whole thread but the first thing that strikes me is that virtually any sort of leisure travel could be classed as unecessary polluting by the purists.
As for the OP's suggestion - one could argue that a plane carrying, say 300 passengers to a holiday hotspot is no more polluting per person that 150 couples towing a van to a site within 100 miles of home.
Although travel is a source of pollution, there are surely other more basic steps to consider such as adequate home insulation, method of home heating and even cutting out unecessary daily car journeys?
It's certainly a quandary and one that needs urgent consideration for generations to come.
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Depends how you define rich? A family that can afford a two week package holiday in Spain is a lot richer than a family who struggle to put food on the table for their children? So richness is relative. As I understand it aviation fuel is not taxed which has lead to an exponential growth in air traffic. Likewise road fuel duty has not increased in 10 years so had it been increased with inflation it would have gone up on average 2.7% a year. Both would have been discouragers. Perhaps from now on we have to think of travel as a luxury and something we do occasionally rather than regularly, it could even make travel more exciting?
David
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But 'rich' 'luxurious' and 'exciting' are relative terms.
My point was that I for one have no desire to see people who will be relatively unaffected by the decisions they make imposing them on the rest of us who do not have the means, or more importantly the ability, to bear them.
All too often when people in power say 'we' they actually mean you.
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