'Wild camping' in a motorhome or van
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"As regards why there are no similar facilities here, I think UK has a long way to go to catch up on what is offered elsewhere where MHs have been popular for much longer"
well said KjeiiNN,
"I agree with LLM, the Club is not meeting the demand for van owners just wanting a short stay perhaps it never will. If you want a long stay, more than a couple of nights, then they are fine"
might being saying what others have said, but why would they today if bums on seats business is doing ok, my thinking would be not to provide such facilities and maybe get even more bums on seats, I know you probably dont like it but £30 for an overnight stop for the club is probably preferable to £10 for short stay or limited facilities.
I am sure the club have business managers looking at these sorts of scenarios, but we could all be looking at lots of different scenarios with the demise of the ICE, breathing down our necks, just had to pay £305 road tax for one of our cars 2007 model considered to be a high polluter and it probably only does 4k miles per annum Ouch!!! not sure how MH's fair in this area , but we have just had one of those very old Winni Tobago's hanging around for a few days chucking out enough pollution to pollute a small town.
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That is the idea I expect, provide a service and people will spend money.
Where my sister lives in Norway, the small local Co-op store had an area for overnight parking with a toilet with outside access, a place to empty black and grey waste, and top up with water, all free, it was very popular.
Unfortunately, the store closed down a few years back due to the lack of local customers in winter, but the parking area is still there, the provision of dump and fill facilities is now at a larger store some 25 miles away, and it is always busy.
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The 6m is not law as far as I know just a recommendation however even if it were you could have a Van, 6m then another van with no need for 4m for an awning, also pitches could be slimmer as there is no need for sitting out etc. so can get more pitches.
Like KJ says 3m is quite adequate spacing for both safety and privacy (not the 3mm the French insist on) and I know someone is going to post a picture of a van on fire which happens say once a year out of over half a million caravans and MH so not as frequent as cars catching fire yet we happily park those 2ft apart in a carpark.
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Michael
I shall post a picture of a Camperstop I used in German which whilst nowhere near the width of a standard Club pitch is more than enough for a day or two which is usually the length of stay.
David
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The Ship Inn at Par in Cornwall has for many years allowed MH owners to stay overnight in their large car park within walking distance of the beach. Usual gentlemen’s ‘rules’ apply e.g expectation that a meal and drinks will be purchased in return for free overnight stay and use of pub toilets.
I was speaking to the owner today. She’s become tired of people taking advantage and abusing the arrangements. Main problem is freeloaders taking advantage of facilities and bringing their own food & drink. She’s now introduced a £15 fee this year. On the evening before restrictions were lifted, some turned up at 11pm for a free overnight stay, expecting the pub to be closed. A significant and shameful minority of folks cannot see the implications of their selfish actions. However, it’s still a good stopover, level site grass & hardstanding, well situated by the beach betwixt Fowey & St Austell and fairly quiet at night. Decent beer and large pub garden.
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We seem to have gone off "Wild Camping" in the tread. To me wild camping is spending the night in a remote area preferably alone experiencing the view in isolation. Not getting in anyone's way, invading any one privacy and being fully aware to leave the spot as if though I had not been there. Can recall some memorable experiences here in Mid Wales ie at Nant Y Moch (seeing an Osprey fishing when officially they were not here).Even better on my travels in Scotland and the Isles. I realise things have changed, and the general lack of regard regarding litter, antisocial behaviour etc. However for those who want a different M/H experience, provided they are responsible why not leave them alone.
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"To me wild camping is spending the night in a remote area preferably alone experiencing the view in isolation. Not getting in anyone's way, invading any one privacy and being fully aware to leave the spot as if though I had not been there."
I have some sympathy with that view, F. Unfortunately the sort of cases we are seeing more and more of (including the incident I mentioned earlier in the thread) are in anything but remote areas. Many popular holiday areas with perfectly adequate accommodation sites are being blighted by a small number of thoughtless idiots.
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To cover fire safety issues as in the the uk i very much dought pitches could be made much smaller than already in existant as in non awning pitches
And as you say in in some countries people cover long distances which in this country is not the problem for the Majority who fill up what pitches are already in short supply as some would have others believe
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Don’t disagree, but on this densely populated little island such places barely exist any more, at least those legally accessible in a MH. For many of us, camping off-grid is as about as close as you’ll get to a ‘wild’ experience.
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Are we not blighting "Wild Campers" for the general lack of respect for anything these days. Just remember the scenes after Covid Partying in Cardiff and Nottingham recently. Litter everywhere. Its like dog walkers the few that dont pick up poo gives all dogs a bad name. There are still plenty of wild places here in Wales and Scotland. Just go off the tourist routes with a good OS map.
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Wherever it is law or guidance from the fire services it is the 'standard' in both clubs and in many larger campsites.
...6m then another van with no need for 4m for an awning, also pitches could be slimmer as there is no need for sitting out etc. so can get more pitches.
That just doesn't make sense to me. You have to have 6m between adjacent walls of each MH not 4m as you describe ( and 3m from one part of your outfit to another - car, MH caravans, awning and where you can sit out ).
So you can have smaller slimmer pitches if you want, the width of a MH even, but still must 6m between adjacent walls. There is nothing to be gained. At the moment the distance between a caravan/MH and the next adjacent caravan/MH wall is (mostly) 6m apart. That space in-between is for cars/awnings.
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I don't think anyone here will be able to answer your question re 6m. The rules/guidelines have been in place for many years now and were written not by any club or campsite but by the fire services and local authorities and the club along with many other campsites abide by them. If I recall correctly it was stated that they club had to
To debate them is largely useless, they are in effect, and are an aid to fire safety. There was a thread about a few fires (one on a club site?) where it was shown that the rule had stopped the spread of fire.
Perhaps the question is does the UK authorities care more for this safety than the rest of Europe? Who knows which one is right but with fire I would err on the side of caution?
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But my question is WHY?
Other countries do not have this 6m fixation.......do they have more fire incidents and more fatalities?
I would like to see some real figures.
JVB keeps remarking on how small UK is compared to other countries (not actually correct in many cases, like Belgium and Netherlands) so maybe it is time that we " get real" and look at what is possible and what we need to do.
Purely academic, as we are caravanners, but interesting anyway.
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And I have no idea any more than you Kj. If you are that bothered about it write to your MP, fire services or local authority and get it changed.
Personally I take the view that our fire services know what they are talking about and trust them.
And what does it matter what the numbers of deaths? Isn't one one too many? where do you draw the line? What number do you accept as being acceptable? 1? 5? 10? 100? 500? before the changes the 6m 'rule'?
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Why?
I think you’re asking in the wrong place Kj. You need to ask the authorities as I doubt anyone on this forum will know the answer. We may guess and theorise but I’d be surprised if any of us know the facts.
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+1
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so not as frequent as cars catching fire yet we happily park those 2ft apart in a carpark
But do people (usually) sleep in their cars in a car park overnight?
Different locations or settings have different rules, stay in a hotel and you'll have laws saying what fire safety devices/rules have to be installed but not in your home.
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A few "facts" for you to build into your discussion.
Back in the early 60's some fire tests were carried out and it was determined that 15ft was the most reasonable safety distance between touring camping units. At some point this was translated to 6m. The
This information was provided as advice / guidance to anyone asking and is regularly "reviewed" to keep it current. Essentially a paperwork exercise that does not require any further testing to take account of any changes.
Most LA's include the requirement in their site licence effectively making it a civil legal requirement to which the licensee must adhere.
Perhaps it is time for another full set of trials to take account of all the changes that have taken place in the intervening 60 years.
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And i stand by that, as I see real time figures and also confirmed via email today by our DG.
JK
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In my humble opinion the 6 meter rule should be increased. Having witnessed 2 outfit fires (seperate) it's a shock to see the damage that can happen to adjacent vehicles correctly spaced. It's been mentioned above regarding distancing in places in Europe and how many more fires etc. But to me reducing the risk is a no brainer. Sooner go wild camping me!!
JK
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Indeed we would K👍 I have long said that if the Club heavily discounted any pitches still available after 6pm, unbooked, unsold, then we would drop into more Club Sites. Ok at the moment most sites will be full, but that’s not the case in a normal year. We rolled into Hurn Lane one evening, gone 7pm, only wanted the one night as we were heading home. We were off by 9.30am the next morning, didn’t use any facilities at all, didn’t even fill up with water. That cost us £32, November as well, tail end of late school half term. I think that one night stop put our holiday nightly average up by a pound a night. ☹️
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👍 Thats another reason we don’t like Club Sites in busy times JK. My OH spent his working life fighting fires, he knows how useless the 6m rule is under certain circumstances. If I can smell next doors cooking, watch their TV, hear their conversations, then that’s too ruddy close for me.
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I think that’s a given LLM. On the plus side, for folks who like a bargain, there will be some decent second hand outfits about. 😁
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