Carpets - in MIRO or payload
Hi. Newbie with van weight question.
Bought a new Bailey which came with removable carpets. Do these count as supplied equipment (so included in MIRO) or extras (so take up payload)?
I prefer the serviceability of hard floors so wondered if no carpets gives more load headroom? (I’m naturally cautious about loading anyway - and the carpets are far from light!)
can’t seem to find a clear answer in the manual
Thanks! All help appreciated!
Comments
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I would think if they came with the caravan they will be included in MIRO.
Even if they weren't what is their weight? I have a large six berth caravan and they are in three sections but I can easily carry all mine rolled up so what is their weight perhaps 2/3 Kg? That is hardly likely to make much difference overall.
But if you're worried weigh them and/or find out or contact Bailey.
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I think the weight will be included in the MIRO. However, their weight will be negligible. Don't fret about it.
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I don't think their weight, in the great scheme of things, will be much. I'd be more concerned if it included the leisure battery and gas bottles, mover etc
If the payload is tight and they often are. If you've not collected it yet get a proper weighbridge certificate and ask them to list what's included when it was weighed. You could then reject if it wasn't how they claimed it when they explained it to you when selling it!
Each van will be slightly different and once your towing it, it's down to you to be legal 😉 If you've already got it, take the van itself - to a weighbridge, then weigh everything you want to put in your on the bathroom scales and add it up. You could load it up for travel but maybe over the weight and thus in trouble before you get chance to try. They are getting hot on it in some places.
You could be very shocked at your findings of just habitation bits, let alone clothes, shoes, food etc. They put in loads of cupboards but unless you're storing feathers they're not much use 😱
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As I don’t think you can buy a Bailey without at least standard carpets, I would think they would be included in the MIRO. The better quality ones that we went for in our Cadiz, perhaps not, although the difference would have been minor.
On our Hymer MH, everything seems to be an extra ☹️ above the basic spec and they are part of the payload, if you have them as an option. We didn’t bother, just using easily replaceable car mats from Tesco.
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I'm putting my neck out. If it is physically fitted and immoveable without the aid of tools then its in the MIRO. If you can pick it up and walk away with it then it's an Extra.
I would be more worried about the dirt element than the weight. We use a runner of lightweight foam rubber matting with holes in it. Dirt fall through, you roll it up every few days and dustpan and brush the floor clean.
Colin
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That cant be right Colin. I can pick up and walk away with all the seat cushions and the mattress not to mention the carpets without any tools and i'm sure they are all included in the MIRO.
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That is true, but without them your caravan would no longer be a caravan. It would be an inhabitable metal box with no berths.
Colin
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MIRO is the van as supplied by the manufacturer, so all standard bits will be included, carpets, EHU cable, external pump, step and waste tank if included. Also an allowance of something like 10kg for a gas bottle.
They are apparently allowed a +/- tolerance of something like 4% on the MIRO so as B2 said, it could be considerably heavier/lighter than you think!
Anything standard that you remove will give you extra payload, we rarely take the big heavy table with us, and in our previous van removed the unused lift up bunk
The figure that really matters is the MTPLM, you must not exceed this.
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This may help in anybody wants to spend a bit of time searching the small print.
BS EN 1646-2
“Leisure accommodation vehicles for caravans' includes full gas and water , “This has been equated to 30 kg”
Colin
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The MIRO is NOT the weight of the caravan as supplied by the manufacturer. It is the weight of the caravan that the manufacturer submitted for type approval. If he submitted it with carpets, it will be included, otherwise not. One would have to contact the manufacturer and ask.
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I am sure you are correct Lutz, and no doubt one reason why they are allowed to claim a pretty generous +/- tolerance, but most manufacturers do say something like this.........
So, I would say it is reasonable to expect that the caravan with the standard equipment, as supplied to the customer, would be within the weight range stated. Loose carpets are standard in this case.
What I find worrying is that such a generous +/- tolerance is allowed as it can leave the customer with a totally inadequate payload.
It seems that a caravan being at the top end of the range allowed is very common in UK
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For the reason given in my previous post, MIRO is a very misleading figure. It is a generic value that applies to all caravans that are covered by the same type approval, regardless of any factory fitted optional extras. A manufacturer could even submit a caravan for type approval without a feature that is later included as standard without necessarily having to adjust the MIRO. Such equipment would then deemed to be a mandatory factory fitted option that would not be reflected in the MIRO because it is still classed as an option. Theoretically, the vehicle could be built without it.
For this reason, the MIRO figure should not be treated as anything but a rough guide.
However, under 1230/2012/EC, type approval has since been amended by introducing a new term "actual mass of the vehicle" in addition to MIRO. Actual mass is closer to what one would expect the unladen weight of the vehicle would be because it does include all factory fitted options. However, it is only documented in the type approval certificate (under item 13.2), but this certificate is seldom passed on to the customer.
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The only way too be certain, particularly in view of the parsimonious payload allowance on UK caravans, is to take it to a weigh bridge loaded with your travelling kit. Be prepared to return home with some of the contents in the car.
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The plate on our Lunar states the MiRO is 1138kg. On the day that I took delivery of the caravan I took it to the local council operated single flat plate weighbridge. The weight came out as 1109kg. Now the question is how accurate is the weighbridge? It seems nigh on impossible to find what tolerance is allowed by law. Some websites state 50kg some state 5%.. I haven't been able to find a government document.
On the basis that 5% is the figure it means that the actual weight of my 'van is as much as 1195kg or as little as 1081kg = +/- 57kg. Quite a difference on a caravan with a payload of 212kg.
For safety's sake I use the plated figure rather than the weighbridge figure when checking that the payload is below the MTPLM but what is the built in safety tolerance on the caravan itself, ie wheels, axle, etc etc.? My MTPLM is stated as 1350kg but can the caravan safely cope with the actual weight being as much as 1407kg?
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For fear of going off track, this is a great argument for axles having a greater capacity than the caravans MTPLM. Our previous van had an MTPLM of 900kg but an axle plate of 1050kg.
Colin
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The thing is, however, that whatever the axle rating, the MTPLM is the only figure that is of concern in the case of a roadside vehicle check. The MTPLM, not the axle load limit, is also the figure that the caravan manufacturer will use as a basis for possible warranty liability.
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I totally agree Lutz, but in the very highly likely event of an owner overloading there van in ignorance, they may at least be spared the axle failing.
Colin
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Thanks Everyone.
For info, I contacted Bailey, who responded very helpfully and promptly but were also initially unsure too!!
After they escalated it to their technical team, a clear answer: their carpets are supplied as part of the van so are included in the MIRO figure (and do not form part of user payload).Obviously I don’t know if this also applies to other manufacturers!
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They may have given you the right answer, but for the wrong reason. What belongs to the MIRO is not necessarily what is included in your caravan when it was built, but what was included in the caravan that was submitted for type approval. The two may agree, but you can't take it for granted.
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Personally....I would load the van as I intended to use it, and then take it to a weighbridge.
The MTPLM is the weight that matters.
Of you are worried that the van is considerably heavier than stated, weigh it in its standard mode.
Not much you can do about that now, but good to know, and to let Bailey kmow.
Can you upgrade the MTPLM? If so, and by a decent amount, then worth doing.
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this is the reply I got from Elddis when I enquired about items included in MIRO
"We can confirm that a 10kg allowance is given per gas bottle, the number of gas bottles depends on the number of connections provided at the regulator. The waste master, Alko wheel lock and mains cable are all included in your Miro as they were factory fitted items. The water in the boiler is included however, there is no allowance given for water in the fresh water tank."
so presumably loose carpets are included as they are factory "fitted"
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My experience is different to KjellNN where our Hymer was supposed to be 1660 Kgs. I had it weighed and it was 1800kg and the only option I had added was a 100watt solar panel. On checking I was told that Uk specs had extras added including carpets, mover, heavier duty battery etc. To answer the original question about carpets, having just acquired a dog I decided to remove all but the carpet in the lounge seated area as there is a nice looking wood effect floor.I was amazed at how heavy the removed carpets were and anybody who is struggling with the their overall caravan weight or payload could significantly ease things by ditching carpeting. Just try lifting them as a check!
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Not me!!
We upgraded our MTPLM from 1815 to 1900 to allow us to add a 2 wheel mover (30kg), air con (30kg) and a roll out Fiamma ((15kg) , and, having loaded up with the necessary, and removed the heavy table, found we might still be up to 40kg over the 1900!
Quick decant of my tools and some other heavy bits sorted that, and we no longer have the Fiamma in the awning rail, so we are well,under.
But we know we have not loaded more than we should, so are pretty sure the van was well over the stated MIRO to start with.
You live and learn, weigh the van at the start !
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