Quality Survey
Is there a definitive review of caravan & motorhome (my interest) manufacturers produced in the way the J D Powers survey serves car buyers?
A bit like voting, it seems I must choose the least worst option in terms of quality for considerable cost. If just one of the current UK companies upped their game, they'd clean up !!
Anyone else feel there's room for improvement?
Comments
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Practical Caravan magazine publish a survey every year (or used to). This Club launched a survey around 2-3 years ago and sat on the results before publishing them in such a format the data was meaningless. The clubs will simply not get involved in consumer lobbying and ‘Which’ seem to consider caravanners an eccentric minority so have no interest in undertaking any tests, surveys or research.
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IMHO i think magazines including both clubs would be quite reticent to publish a list of "problems" and build quality they find when doing revues of an LVs as why bite the hand that feeds you with also the "long term" free vehicles ,and their "testers" also get free pitches on sites
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Mmmm, is it ok for them to ignore faults(problems & build quality) that could help members-who are also a hand that feeds them?🤷🏻♂️. I think the C&MC are not ‘which’ magazine/Organization as they actually campaign for consumer rights👍🏻
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Rocky, if you remember the debacle when the "Club" tested leisure batteries and found some simply to be standard car batteries. Did they inform the members which brands were the culprits? - No they protected the manufacturers so they could get their act in order. I would have crucified them!
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Good point Mikey, and a perfect illustration of the clubs inability and unwillingness to act in the members interests. I fail to understand why the Club(s) are so reticent to criticise and lobby for their members, and cannot recall ever seeing a convincing explanation for such an attitude. Every towcar, caravan or moho test you read in club magazines gives the impression they are all perfectly built, with perfect quality and no faults. Hmmmm....
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It's quite interesting this. A review should not be influenced by the manufacturer or supplier, otherwise it's simply a sales pitch or, free advertising. Manufacturers are getting an end-users perpective which should help improve the product and hopefully increase sales. Car manufacturers accept criticism, it's feedback and has genuine commercial value.
Clubs are an ideal platform and it's a little disappointing they do not feedback to providers of poor products, it's in everybodys interest to do so.
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The NCC is a trade organisation looking after the interests of its members in the LV industry. Among the members are the clubs and the manufacturers but not the end users.
Are they all in it together protecting and supporting each other? You may very well think so.
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To get a 'fair' review or warts and all type then the reviewing body must be totally independent and really that mean totally financially independent.
The club magazine while one could think it is as being independent no doubt takes large chunks of advertising and income from the main manufactures who may not place future adverts if a really scathing review took place?
I've found club reviews on caravans useful for features and layouts and a general feel for the quality but that's about all.
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I’d forgotten about that MA-thanks👍🏻
Yup, the moral of the story is-‘be careful who you climb into bed with, or just be celibate’👍🏻. . .You know it makes sense😊3 -
A couple of years ago we were staying at a club site ,and there was a new caravan brought to site, on a low loader direct from the manufacturer,
we had a sneak preview and noted many things,that in the model it was replacing, were no where near as user friendly One couple we were with had the "same" model as it was replacing,
When the cc reviewers arrived a couple of days later ,we spoke to them and told them of what we had noted ,and one of the reviewers acknowledged that we had very valid points,and wrote them in his notes?
When the c/van concerned was reviewed in the club magazine ,it was quite a conversation piece amongst us all as we did not recognize it?as the one we had seen on site
It must have bombed as the van it replaced was reintroduced albeit under a "new name"
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Unfortunately there does not seem to be an organisation or body that supports leisure vehicle owners or prospective owners when it comes to an honest review of products for long term use. Or indeed supporting paying members who experience quality or design issues. Has anyone seen reports critical of water ingress, axles, brakes or body structure failure? All have been issues with LVs both currently and over many years pretty much silence. The cases ones I can recently recall are where the manufacturer has come clean and issued a recall. Only Bailey wheels (DVSA input I think) and Swift water sealant ingress come to mind over the last 10 years.
As individuals were pretty much on our own, I cant see things changing with the current demand for LVs. What is also surprising in this day and age is some brands are not even manufactured under an accredited quality system such as ISO/BS no wonder vehicles continue to be produced with the same faults year in year out. Seems to me like no corrective actions, just bang them out and let the customer sort it.
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I have posted before ,all LVs delivered to dealers are supposed to be given a PDI before a customer takes delivery, which the dealer is paid by the manufacturer to carry out, ,and should pick up an "problems" that were missed during the factory checks? off the production lines , and with with the , it seems,increase in production to satisfy the latest demand for LVs ,more "missed" items are in need of dealer PDI input, ,which IF the dealer is up to it, are mostly rectified? but it is it seems some dealers skimp or neglect to do a PDI and expect any faults the owner finds will come back to be rectified under a warranty claim for which the dealer will again be paid to carry out
Tha caravan we now have ,when delivered to our Local dealer ,and they called us to ask if we would like to view before they did the PDI
Of course we took them up on the offer the van was just as it had come off the low loader,on t on a seat was the check list from the the "inspector?" had filled in when it came off the production line with all areas given an OK tick?our dealer jokingly said we only take that sheet as a guide that the van is complete not that it is fit for use
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I must admit it is a fair few years since I recall seeing results of caravan quality/satisfaction survey in the magazine. I do however seem to remember German vans being in the majority of the top slots.
Colin
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If you care to look for it there is a lot of "unofficial" information out there on the internet which wasn't probably available so easily maybe ten years ago. If I were in the process of buying a caravan/motorhome from a manufacturer I was unfamiliar with I would be inclined to look for manufacture specific Facebook Groups where you will get a lot of firsthand experience even down to the model you were interested in. You are more likely to get a warts and all reaction from owners but you will, perhaps surprisingly, get a lot of positive feedback. I am not sure how much use magazine reviews are as they are only a snapshot of a new model provided by the manufacturer, no doubt having been gone over with in minute detail to make sure everything is in order. In any case such a review will only be useful in terms of providing general look and feel.
David
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There most definitely is room for improvement Peterr, however, you would do well to remember that this is a Club in name only. It is a limited company and as such, needs to generate income. Therefore it would probably not wish to publish any detrimental evidence against a possible revenue stream. As Flatcoat said in the first response to the OP, Practical Caravan magazine, in conjunction with CCC, publish an Owners Satisfaction survey, which is, to my knowledge, the only independent report of it's type. I really wish the likes of JD Power would throw their weight behind such a venture. I've often wondered why the likes of Matt Allwright (he of caravanning and Watchdog fame) have not pursued this virtually unregulated industry. Warranty issues immediately come to mind.
Forums are generally helpful and a good source for gaining information about a certain brand, but amassing lots of information on a particular subject manner can be very time consuming. Plus, it's secondhand knowledge and often hearsay, not facts gathered independently. For those matters which require legal assistance, the Club does have a useful department.
There are many things this Club does very well but I've never heard of them challenging any manufacturer on behalf of it's members. I stand to be corrected of course.
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JR, I don’t think you can consider any magazine or club to be truly independent. They are all in receipt of advertising revenue from the industry. See my earlier post - they are all tied with the same cord.
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I've often wondered why the likes of Matt Allwright (he of caravanning and Watchdog fame) have not pursued this virtually unregulated industry.
You mean Matt Allwright who seems to appear for the CAMC at every caravan show.
Do you seriously think he is going to jeopardise his next easy pay packet by asking any searching questions of the Club or the Industry?2 -
I have to agree with you, as I said before only a fully financially independent body or agency can give truly independent reviews. The problem is who is going to fund such a body or agency to look at LVs?
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It amounts to much the same thing. Kick one part of the industry and you kick them all.
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In a regulated industry, I would agree. In this case, there's no backside to kick, or to feel the weight of the boot that's aiming the kick! As Corners said, there's no body or financially funded group to answer or represent its clients.
Returning to the OP - Is there room for improvement? Most definitely in my view. Whatever happened to British Leyland?
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I was referring to your suggestion that MA might become interested if he had a problem, JR. As was pointed out, he's not going to make big waves in (kick) an industry that gives him a pay cheque.
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Are you sure about that TW? If I'd bought a product and had problems with it, I wouldn't give a second thought about making waves! Do you seriously suggest Mr Allwright's salary would be massively impacted by severing ties with the Club? Me thinks not 😀
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I think he knows which side his bread is buttered.
I'd make waves too but neither you nor I have the celebrity profile to cause waves across the industry resulting in fallout detrimental to our careers.
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Yes you're right, I assume these people are self employed with an eye out for their next job. And would anyone employ someone who had turned on their previous employers or as you said made waves?
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