Quality and Reliability - can you help?
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I have had two caravans and two motorhomes all purchased new from different dealers and can honestly say I have not been dissatisfied with any of them or the dealers. Yes there have been problems with them all at times but nothing that could not be resloved quickly either by myself or a dealer.
My current motorhome has been the worst for leaks, I never had any water ingress problems with my caravans and only one window leak on my first motorhome well outside the guarantee period, This was spotted very quickly in driving rain and was easilly resolved by myself. Some of the initial leaks with my current van were undoubtable due to the manufacturer and were delt with expeditely by them at no cost to me other than a trip to the factory. The later ones I have put down to the state of the British roads and the vibration the body work is subjected to. I have become quite an expert at removal and resealing windows etc. You most certainly notice the impact bad roads have on a motorhome whereas caravans owners are totally oblivious to what a shake up a caravan is getting.
My LVs are well used. I am a heavy all year round user, on average travelling 6000 miles a year to achive an average of 100 days away. My first caravan was owned for 3 years but all subsequent LVs have each been in my ownership for more than 9 years. The current van has been on the road for nearly 10 years and I will continue to use it for the foreseeable future.
There is always room for manufacturers to improve, some more than others but I have been satisfied with all my purchases.
peedee
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Oh someone will happily buy it Tinny. And spend months with it off the road until it is fixed. I have read some of the reviews for the dealers who our friends took to court, similar things repeated. Reviewers have taken to putting in descriptions of models they have rejected with the model numbers, to try and help anyone falling foul of same substandard product, which is still out there with a for sale sign in the window. They appear good at selling, just not very good after that, unless it’s a set of crockery or an awning you want. Caveat Emptor indeed!
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It sounds very much like the big dealership with quite a few branches we bought our Autocruise "dealer special?" from , all sorts of reasons? trying to fob off their responsibilities to the customer once they had your money
luckily Autocriuse factory was not to far from Clumber Park and they took on the sevicing and any warranty work (only once) at their own service centre, which also gave us a guided tour of their factory with tea and bickies each of the eight years? we had the M/C
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They will indeed, TDA. The warped wall van stayed on the forecourt on sale.
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Dealers are dealers, be it cars, caravans, motorhomes, whatever. Their job is to sell, as many as they can, as fast as they can, for as much as they can.
Manufacture is something different, and at the root of most issues. If it is fit for purpose, well designed, well built, uses quality components then once purchased only goes back for servicing, then it’s a good product🤷♀️ I expect a pair of shoes to give good service, I expect an iPad to be last me a long time, I expect a cooker to be safe, cook well and be trouble free. So it’s not wrong to expect a multi thousand pound item to be the same🤷♀️ Granted more complex, but then so are cars.
Google the manufacturer reviews, not the dealers, they are just middle men. Granted they should be part of the quality control, but will still sell anything to the unwary, it’s what they do, the bottom line is the driving factor.
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Out of curiosity, can those of you who have no issues tell us how recently you bought new LVs?
I'm stressing new because that gives a good indication of when the van was built, plus I think it's fair to assume a previously owned model would have had build quality issues sorted by the original owner.
I'm interested because it's my contention that standards have dropped year on year and I can notice a difference between the new MH I bought 3 years ago and the same model I bought new 3 months ago.
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For balance I did once have a caravan rejected, not by me but by the dealer. We had gone to pick up a new Sterling Eccles Topaz but when we got there, Phil the manager, warned us that they had discovered a problem with the lino. He said we could try and sort it but suggested that he try and source another van, which he did. OK we had to wait a few more weeks but the van we eventually got we had for six trouble free years.
The main thing that comes out of this thread is that life is made so much easier if you have a decent dealer. I would much prefer to buy from a local dealer and all the vans I have purchased have come from dealers within a 20 mile radius of where I live. I fully understand that dealers will often have to discuss with the manufacturer the way forward on a particular problem.
David
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The dealer we bought our MH from was very good. Small, independent, nothing was too much trouble. We got all day to look around the MH, took it for a long test drive, the paperwork was carefully checked. Once we had decided yes, it was thoroughly valeted (again), everything checked and tested, and dealer actually picked my OH up from nearby station on collection day to save him the taxi fare. We got a years warranty, but didn’t have a single issue. It’s sailed through its subsequent MOTs for the last five years. We happily gave him a 5* review, and would go back there first if looking to replace. He had a former AS employee working as his checker and habitation fixer. They were an excellent team. But he knew what he was selling as well, specialised in older AS models, thoroughly vetted before he bought them to sell on.
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With the big increases in new LVs being purchased ,manufacturers have had to up their output and it seems, without an increase in capacity to cope ,so less time (as we noted with our Bailey of 4.5 years)for more production output ,which it seems is on most makes is influencing quality
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I am not sure I am particularly qualified to answer that. When starting to think about changing the original motorhome to the one we have now. The first priority was to get the layout right and within a shorter length. So I suppose we tended not to look at build quality per sa as the first part of the decision. It was a question of deciding the layout and then looking at the different models. Having decided on the same Marque I can compare before and after. Without doubt the habitation side of the vehicle is certainly built to a lighter standard compared to the first one. After nearly two years and 80 nights I can't see that it makes a detrimental difference. When I delve behind the scenes I can see evidence of a neater job being made in some aspects of the construction. I would have thought in the motorhome business there is quite a pressure to keep things light weight because of the impact of the 3500kgs weight limit for many and also to provide a reasonable payload. Technology moves on and I expect there are many lighter materials available now than there used to be. The trouble is many associate lightweight with inferior quality which might not be the case. As with most things the proof of the pudding is in how long that quality lasts, over the years, compared to older more heavier constructed models. Perhaps if you have had a whole series of motorhomes the difference is more marked?
David
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I accept your point about lighter materials, David, but saving weight by leaving the screws out is another matter🤣
Different materials and fittings don't necessarily mean inferior quality, as you say, but it’s the way it’s put together/thrown together that counts. I'm coming to the conclusion that the LV industry is keeping the producer of two sided sticky tape in business.
In short, it seems your van is 2 years old and, although you notice a difference between that and your previous, it's not necessarily a change for the worse in terms of build quality.
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Good point😂
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The first motorhome we purchased was in early 2013 and it's probably worth remembering that Bailey had only been producing for just over a year. I think they announced them in 2011 but I don't think that many were delivered before 2012. The original one wasn't without a few issues but beyond having to take it to the dealers all were remedied without cost to us over a six year period. I imagine that Bailey have learnt a lot about producing motorhomes over the years. I can see from the dedicated Facebook Group that some have more problems than others! Obviously only time will tell, I can't think that we would be looking for an alternative whilst still touring. When perhaps that becomes a chore I would be inclined to look at a 5.5 metre van conversion which could be used as a day van or maybe the occasional overnight. But as this year has proved, very difficult to look into the future!!!
David
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DK wrote: " I would much prefer to buy from a local dealer and all the vans I have purchased have come from dealers within a 20 mile radius of where I live"
That works if you can get the model you want locally. Buy second-hand and the "van of your dreams at the right price" could be anywhere.
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It also works if you have a dealer within 20 miles. Our nearest is 40 miles then we start counting up the extra miles.
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I've named and shamed many a time, DT, but this is about quality and service in general throughout the industry.
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But I don't buy second hand and I am pretty sure I don't have a van "of my dreams" so no need to travel vast distances from home
If you want a particular model which is only available miles from home you have to take the chance that when it comes to warranty work you have to accept that you will be inconvenienced by travelling further afield. If the van is second hand hopefully any problems have already been ironed out. 0 -
We dont have many, I can think of, dealers in our county or neighbouring counties, so that limits our choice dramatically if we want go stay local 😱
Incidently this thread has individual page numbers, I did say on a thread about CT IT work that I'd seen one 🤣
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I have purchased 3 new Coachman caravans over the years from Marquis Lancashire reason being I can walk there in 30 mins (not with caravan). 1st van the after sales was second to none. Over the years the service went downhill as the staff in the after sales changed regularly. By the time I purchased my 3rd van the after sales was worse than rubbish. Every time I had a fault which on that van there were plenty, getting warranty work was like banging your head against a brick wall. The only way I got any satisfaction was by sending an e mail to the managing director a man called Mike Crouch. Every time I sent an e mail and there were many as the van had many faults, surprise, surprise I would get a phone call from the manager in after sales at Preston the day after to bring my van in.
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David, please don't think this is personal, I am only using some of your text as an example of a common misconception held by many regarding warranty claims:
The original one wasn't without a few issues but beyond having to take it to the dealers all were remedied without cost to us over a six year period.
Members need to be aware that the cost of warranty claims is added to the cost of design, production, delivery etc. Only one person pays for this - YOU! . Some LVs have relatively small issues which may only account for a couple of hundred pounds in labour and material. Others have thousands spent to remedy the issues. Warranty costs are not discriminatory, they are added to the bottom line of every unit sold which you pay for up front. If we take even 5% as an average, that's £1000 added to the cost of a £20,000 LV.
Those manufacturers that cannot control their production tend to have the highest in house costs. These amount to rectification work, breakages, poor design, etc etc.
Guess what, 5% on rectifications etc is probably not uncommon. Another £1000 to you sir!
So YOU pay for the warranty (even if you don't need it) and yes, YOU pay for the in house rectification work!
Personally, I would prefer not to pay either. In addition, my dealer might be friendly and helpful, but I don't want to make 2 round trips to the dealer for every warranty claim (at my expense) and I would quite like to have my wasted time doing something I like - going away in the van!
If we can get the manufacturers to reduce warranty claims, this will have come from their own in house improvements, so it is a win - win.
At the moment, manufacturers are not being held to account by the consumer. So do you want to do something about it, or shall we continue to subsidise poor quality and reliability?
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DaveT
One would have thought that a sensible manufacturer would look at warranty claims to see if they have recurring problems or whether they are just random issues. Recurring problems need to be looked at to see if they can be avoided and therefore save money for them and inconvenience for the customer.
Regarding trips back to dealers. I have the say the majority were at the same time as the service although a couple weren't.
On your point about warranties. For the last 14 years I have owned four Kia cars which come with a seven year warranty. An excellent selling point on the part of Kia and they must be pretty confident they won't incur massive warranty costs but the do have to set any costs against the volume of extra sales so I imagine they are happy with the situation?
In the case of improving the situation as you see it perhaps the caravan and motorhome press could be more involved in asking questions about warranties. My MMM monthly magazine often interviews the bosses of motorhome companies but I don't recall the issue of warranty being addressed, by either party!
David
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