Gasless motorhomes
It seems that compressor fridges are becoming more popular these days.
Consideration is being given to a bespoke PVC that would incorporate a largish compressor fridge/freezer and a Combi diesel heater. This would do away with the requirement for large gas cylinders or tanks. However, a small canister/cylinder type gas hob would also be included along with an induction hob. Our main way of heating up food would be by microwave [when on hook up obviously].
We tend to normally use hook up but, for the odd days of wild camping [two nights at most], we are concerned that two leisure batteries might not be enough to power the fridge & heater [+ lighting & TV] without a solar power option included.
Having only had absorption fridge/freezers on our motorhomes, we are seeking peoples experience of the above scenario.
Thanks in advance,
Pilgrim Phil
Comments
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Two way compressor fridges 12v/230v are quite often installed in campervans. I believe regardless of size they draw about 0.5 amps at 12 volts so I don't see a problem running it off a couple of leisure batteries. A 100APH battery should run a compressor fridge on its own for well over a 100 hours.
I'll add I have no experience of such a set up as you describe but given a TV might draw 2amps, lighting similar, add the power required by your heater and apply the maths.
peedee
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I’d be a bit wary of manufacturers claims for compressor fridges. They’re seldom tested in the conditions frequently experienced in motorhomes e.g. ambient temperatures above 30c, and frequent opening/closing of the door. A 80l compressor fridge working hard might use about 2 amps per hour and in hot conditions will run continuously. Combine that with the consumption of your other electricals and your battery spec.
Compressor fridges can also be irritatingly noisy in the quiet confines of a motorhome at night.
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Solar panels and refillable gas cylinders coupled with a lithium battery is "power nirvana". Expensive to start with but cheap in the long run.
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I believe regardless of size they draw about 0.5 amps at 12 volts so I don't see a problem running it off a couple of leisure batteries.
Take the above statement with a pinch of salt. I have done some further checking and looking at the Waeco specs, average consumption can be anything between 3 to 5 amps depending on the size of the fridge. So for a 100APH battery you would get something like 20 to 30 hours running time if you were just running the fridge.
peeedee
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If you travel in southern Europe a good fridge is essential and whilst a compressor fridge would be better there are issues of power consumption and noise. A site we regularly use in Italy has a 5 amp supply and the voltage can drop alarmingly. Our motorhome which is 4 years old has a Dometic adsorbtion fridge and I was very surprised how good it was compared with earlier fridge models. We have never had a problem even with temperatures up to 35 deg. C. For the UK an adsorption fridge is fine.
You can get PVCs with underslung gas tanks which are easily located within the chassis. All Autosleepers models have this and other makes.
We find electric hobs useless except on Club sites. We are used to 6 amps maximum supply in Europe so the electric hob is a total waste of space. If you visit Germany you will find that electricity is very expensive and gas is the best option for heating and cooking.
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An expensive option but one that is gaining some support is the use of lithium batteries. One friend now has about 320w of solar, three lithium batteries totalling about 360A, a compressor fridge, a combi microwave oven, and an induction hob. Off grid everything runs off a large inverter. He virtually full times mainly in Europe and swears he now nevers now needs EHU. The cost? I have little idea, but probably eye watering.
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Is there any advantage to a compressor fridge in a motorhome? The only one that springs to mind is probably cost as absorption fridges seem to be off the scale compare to a normal domestic versions.
David
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Pilgrim,
I have used an Autotrail V line 600 with an Isotherm compressor fridge for the last 5 years, it is the ONLY piece of original kit that I would change, apart from the Media unit, but that's another story.
It is a marine drawer unit and works very well PROVIDED you are on EHU, otherwise it can flatten an 110 ah leisure battery in a rainy day ! Even with the 100watt solar panel giving a good power, 2-3 days is the longest It has carried on working.
So, if spending any time OFF of EHU, get a 3 way fridge and run it on gas.
Nothing wrong with a Compressor fridge, but they are 12v power hungry. In my experience.
Just noticed you are considering a diesel heater too, we also had a Webasto heater/hot water system on our 2005 Autocruise Starburst, this too works very well, easily as good a our Truma Combi, BUT it too is very heavy on 12v power especially on start up, definately 2 x 110 amp and possibly bigger leisure batteries. To avoid problems.
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Thanks for all those comments & ideas - very thought provoking.
Comments on other forums have suggested having two lithium batteries & solar panels as the "draw" for the compressor fridge is, as others have stated, quite high & an AGM without a solar set up might struggle.
As I originally stated, any wild camping would only be for a couple of days/nights, so maybe just normal batteries & solar might suffice.
I'm told that the new generation of compressor fridges and diesel heaters are a lot quieter than they were.
Thanks again all.
PilgrimPhil
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Cost is certainly a factor, but I guess the only other advantage with compressor fridges is they don’t require much gravity to work so no need to be concerned about levelling. I’m told you need to aim for less than 3 degrees side to side and 6 degrees front to back for the fridge to work properly. We’ve certainly parked up at sloping festival sites and struggled with the fridge. However, if you know you’re going to be off grid for a few days you can always turn up to max in advance and fill it with frozen stuff. Just requires planning, but some don’t appreciate planning their trips around the fridge temperature!
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How would an 'electric only' caravan manage on 5amp supplied Continental sites ? Strange that Continental Maker Weinsberg are the first ones to produce one. Is there a market for such a thing ?
Notice from their advert, that air conditioning is standard, that's nearly all the 5amp gone already.
Seems that British sites were quite forward looking supplying 16amp as standard on pitches.
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How would an 'electric only' caravan manage on 5amp supplied Continental sites?
Over time 5 amp would be able to charge a bank of lithium batteries which in turn could power most equipment continuously (e.g. a compressor fridge) and higher demand equipment (e.g a cooker and water heater) for some hours, especially if supported by the 24/7 5 amp supply, plus solar during the day.
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Don't forget that in Germany, albeit sometimes metered, usually has a 16 amp supply on camp sites so I suppose on home soil the Weinsberg would be fine?
David
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My 2-way compressor fridge states in the specs a draw of 5 Amps! Although I assume this is only when the compressor kicks in (obviously dependant upon ambient temperature and number of times door opens). Nevertheless, my 100 Watt SP and 2 x 120amp FLA batteries struggle to last more than 24hrs!
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I think a good rule of thumb is that solar capacity should equal battery capacity. i.e. 100w for each 100A although that probably only applies in the summer months. Shoulder season, the ratio should be 2 to 1 and winter - don't even think about it.
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Many off-grid folks will move frequently so adding a 2nd leisure battery can be very beneficial charging batteries at about 9Ah via the alternator - combined with additional solar gain it significantly increases your options.
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I would imaging these days that 'off grid folk' might be charging their lithium batteries with a 30 amp (or more) battery to battery charger for a super quick refill...
similarly, regarding the fridge fuel, it's certainly possible now to have excess solar power where batteries are topped up by mid morning....then what happens to all that juice?
with some regulators, a signal (similar to the D+ signal from an alternator) can be sent to the 3-way fridge to switch over automatically to 12v...
should batteries reduce to a specified level, the switching signal is removed and the fridge switches back to gas...best of both?
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Lithium systems are eye wateringly expensive….I’m not sure how common they are at the moment, but that will obviously change over time as applications expand. For my current circumstances it wouldn’t make economic sense unless money was no object. There can also be some potential issues with charging voltages from alternators and mains chargers that need to be addressed before getting your credit card out.
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Yes, I can't get the enthusiasm for those prices (yet) and am sticking to my pretty darn faithful AGMs....although I have added two extra 100w panels to my roof and now have 300w (and flashy new regulator) ...relatively small cost compared to a 'serious' battery upgrade..
the thing is, once you get those lithiums you simply 'must have' a B2B charger and a new, larger inverter and a switchover module which will power all the 230v sockets..
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