Diesel & petrol alternatives? Your thoughts please
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As a long time diesel car owner and caravanner I will not be forced to change any time soon. The climate change lobby fail to reveal the damage to the environment in production and disposal of the batteries for the new generation of vehicles. As for Hybrid, unless you drive mainly low speeds, fuel consumption is abysmal. Also due to battery degradation, resale values don’t promise to be good. My diesel exceeds 60+ mpg on a run and never fails to provide 48+ around local area. As I require my car to travel quite a lot, the high mpg would be crazy to give up. Also as an up to date engine it runs as clean as it can. To maintain that, it gets proper servicing each year. I expect a drop in mpg whilst towing but can absorb that, for the few times it’s hooked up. I was very nearly persuaded to change to a Hybrid but when pressed both dealerships of the two I chose, admitted that the real life fuel consumption for my driving needs, could not compete with my diesel. So all you fossil fuel decriers, get honest about the negative side to EV and Hybrid. Work out the extra time added to the journey whilst wait to recharge, that’s saying you can get a free charging point. Let’s hope you don’t run out of charge in the middle of nowhere. One final note, try and get an extended warranty on one of those.
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Totally agree and the news last week that energy companies are applying for permission to cut supplies to EV chargers when demand is high is not good news for the roll out of mass EV ownership although it was obvious to many people that this would happen.
"Electricity companies could be allowed to use smart meters to cut off power to electric vehicle charging points during periods of high demand.
Proposals made to energy watchdog Ofgem would see suppliers given access to disable high-consumption devices such as EV home chargers and electric central heating to help manage demand".1 -
My thoughts now are the same as they were when the thread was 1st started 3 years ago by a staff member - they are impractical for my personal usage so I will not be changing to a Hybrid or Electric vehicle any time in the foreseeable future.
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I’ve been on a smart meter for around 5yrs JV in that time my monthly electric costs have gone down from around £40 p/mth to £35 p/mth currently.
PS-apologies my PA informs me we’ve had a smart meter for 7yrs not 5yrs.
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We've had our EV for nearly four years now, we both like it, we don't have a smart meter but we do have the occasional power cut.
Since the thread was started we've noticed a lot more hybrid cars in use, their running capacity on electric for local use is very good, it's how you decide to use them which gives you the benefit.
Our car isn't a hybrid and we have the use of a small petrol motor to top up the battery, useful on long journeys. various designs have come on to the market since our initial purchase. At a local level, there are four cars like ours and several hybrids, originally it was just us. I'll be interested to see how things develop. I think I've heard every excuse now from non users about why they think these cars are a bad idea.
For towing, only hybrids and expensive Teslas have been successful so not much movement on that front.
But it looks like many more hybrids are now being used for towing and more rapd chargers are needed everywhere.
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Ther are two misubishi hybrids in our area one is a 2015 reg the other not sure as it has private plates,the owner of the 2015 reg would says it would not be any good as a tow car ,now as the engine (petrol) has not got the power needed(he had hopes they may make a diesel but not now)and the battery is not now lasting as in the past , he has to charge evey couple of days, where it could last a week,
And has had letters from the council (after complaints ?) because to charge from his house he needs to park on a green as he lives in a terraced house ,and cannot get near enough
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I have had a smart meter since i bought my first house nearly 40 years ago.... It is called ‘my brain’. When i see something switched on that shouldn't be i switch it off, simples as they say. I dont need to see a meter to tell me if i switch on the kettle or a TV i am using more electricity and if i turn them off i use less....
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Our energy company ,keep "Advising?" us to have a smart meter, as it will save us money?,
I send our meter readings in every month ,if we are home ,and when checking our usage even this year when we have not been away ,it shows a much lower usage than our neighbours.
Ps i have put our DD monthly up from £35 to £40 and that is for duel fuel gas and electric not each
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What is really "smart" about these meters is how the suppliers are keeping quiet about how they can be remotely controlled by your supplier to turn you off should there be a shortage of electricity in your area. That does mean no lights, no heat or hot water (gas systems included as controls and pump are mains driven), no TV, no electric shower, no microwave, no hob/oven if not gas, etc.
So keep your caravan handy and move out there should your meter "go-smart" on you. Then you can have fun when you are allowed power again resetting all the clocks and time switches!
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We tow with the new 2020 Outlander PHEV, it use a 2.4 litre engine as opposed to the previous 2.0 litre, a bigger battery, upgrade in the motors and software, it tows no problem but you must use the charge button which fires up the engine.
As a towcar it is not as good as a diesel, I know as we have recently changed from a Ford Kuga, but it is a compromise and 90% it is as good, as an everyday car for use as we only do shortish journeys it is excellent and cheap to run.
Is it better for the environment I have no idea, everything in life has pro and cons, I just fancied on.
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Funny you should mention that, we are with Octopus Energy and on the OctopusGo tariff off peak £0.05kWh 0.30 - 4.30 am, but we are on the earlier SMET 1 meter.
We had an notification on my account 'due to high carbon etc it is a good time switch of you EV charger'
Our PHEV was not even plugged in?
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I’ve been given 2 weeks notice due to repairs needed on the main frame but it wasn’t via my smart meter it was the whole village at once. Plus I thought they(power suppliers) needed to do ensure folk could cope re medical dependencies etc before cutting anyone off I doubt they’ll be willing to take life to save electricity. The Law tends to have a dim view on taking lives🤷🏻♂️🤔
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The country isn’t heading to bankruptcy after all👍🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
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The thing that puzzles me about EVs is what proportion of the charge in the battery is lost?
I have in mind that you can't drive a 1/4 ton of battery pack (or less) around without it costing power that then will not be available to add to the mileage driven?
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I understand that Volvo now fit a diesel hybrid to the xc90, in fact I don’t think you can get just a diesel. Anyone any experience of towing with one of these? I think the electric motor just powers ancillaries. Does this free up more engine power to the wheels.
my current tow car is 3.0 litre Diesel and I’m concerned about going back to a 2.0 litre for towing a large van. But I would like to be greener and get more mpg!can anyone with real world experience provide mpg figures and towing thoughts.
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Many of the engine systems work on regeneration, you can actually add to the mileage using this provision.
Regarding EV sales, I just pulled this off the web regarding the present EV market. LINK
A lot of other info on there regarding the most popular models etc.
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The build up against the plug in hybrid continues to gain pace just as it did with the diesel with a news story today concerning emissions being far higher than claimed by manufacturers.
Mercedes and Volvo are in discussions to manufacture a new combustion engine more suited to hybrid use.
The Ineos owner is investigating the use of a hydrogen fuel cell to power his version of the defender - the Grenadier. In addition he is looking at how to set up a hydrogen distribution network.
Whichever way you jump they`ll be another way you could have gone!
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You have a point, but to be fair a (say) 2 litre engine, gearbox and 70 litres of diesel weighs a bit as well.
As I have said before, the issues for caravanning are towing weights, range and charging, particularly in rural areas or at events (such as caravan rallies, agricultural shows or horse trials)?
I looked at the new Gridserve EV charging station in Essex on their website. I don't see any spaces for charging caravan towing EVs (unless they let you use the space in front of two EV charging points).. I have sent them an email to ask what their policy is for accommodating towing vehicles and await their response.
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Just discovered this thread. I have been towing with a 2017my Volvo V60 D6 PHEV. is the 2.5L 5cyl Diesel with a 78hp electric assist and is excellent. It tows our Unicorn Vigo without any trouble, returning around 30MPG. It will tow between 10-12 miles in summer in all electric mode from a full battery. When on site at a CLwith hookup, I will check with the owner if charging is OK (and pay for the extra electricity) and am able to use local miles on Electric only. When solo, it has about 20miles range in summer. Last 100 days has seen an average MPG of 64, with a few long trips.
I am about to take ownership of a Polestar 2 EV, and plan to use that with the caravan too - probably for trips less than 100miles from home to start, and only to sites with hookup to charge over night. Thinking of changing the van in the next 2 years, and would go for something lighter weight, maybe with less front area, to improve EV range. Looking forward to trying it out!
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I too have a V60 Diesel PHEV, great tow car and economical too albeit economy is different to yours. Solo EV only can be high 20’s in summer albeit high teens in winter. Overall it gives over 40mpg on long runs (such as a very high speed drive to Prague) and can exceed 50mpg with gentle driving. Towing mpg is mid/high 20’s. Winter is hammering economy but then i only drive at weekends at the moment and i am not a hypermiler. Reliability is rubbish, it will be my first and last Volvo. Good luck towing with an EV, no good to us though. When we go away it is usually 3/400 miles each way and so far have never seen a recharging point that can accommodate a car/caravan and i don’t spend more than £18k on a used car. Not sure what sites if any have EV charging points yet? What used EV’s can someone who has a caravan and on average wages who spends £8/10k on a used Mondeo or similar every few years buy? They can’t so EV’s will long remain the preserve of a relative few wealthy individuals or those who have an EV on their company car list. And used Nissan Leaf etc are almost unsellable, about the only used EV in demand is the Tessla.
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Sounds like our economy on the PHEV is similar. I too see 40-42 on long high speed runs, and also around 50 if more gentle. My 64 has come from a lot of EV only journeys in lockdown. Shame to hear you have had poor reliability. So far mine has been excellent, as have the previous 5 Volvos of different shapes and varieties.
Understand what you mean about towing with an EV - 3/400 miles each way would be hard work in any car but I am looking forward to the challenge. There is youtube vid of a polestar 2 towing a twin axle horse box and it looks like he gets about a 50% penalty - that would give me a range of about 100 miles towing between charges. My current trip to the lakes is 230 and we stop twice in the ICE on that run (once for comfort and once for comfort and fuel), so by extending those stops for about 10 mins each it should be doable. You are right that apart from Gridserve, most EV chargers are not caravan friendly, but I am prepared to unhitch to charge if needed - its a 2 minute exercise, and same with hitching after.
All club sites with hookup are EV chargers - you can plug into the bollard via the van - and I charge the PHEV that way too - Pay per day in the office. One or two have dedicated EV chargers too.
Right now there are few EVs that can tow (though the list is growing almost by the week) and most of those are new, so it will be a while until they trickle down to the 2nd hand market, but they will get there.
Not so sure that used EVs (of any make - not just the Leaf) apart from Tesla are unsellable, They seem to have a strong market and high residuals from what I have seen so far. But again - that may change as there are more to choose from. Either way - I am happy to be a part of the "early adopter" phase for towing (I cant class myself as early adopter for EV - we are beyond that now), and will be really interested to see how practical or otherwise it turns out to be. As with most things, I think you get out what you put in. A bit of planning (as with any caravan holiday to avoid those pesky single track CL accesses) and a relaxed approach, and it should be just fine.
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@ Chocolate Trees ... My current trip to the lakes is 230 and we stop twice in the ICE on that run (once for comfort and once for comfort and fuel), so by extending those stops for about 10 mins each it should be doable
will it still be an extra 10mins when there are more electric vehicles in the queue for the charging point?
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Reality check time-we live in the middle of a village Conservation Area and we are fortunate enough to have garage parking but few of our neighbours do -so they park on street.I cannot see how EVs and Charging Points will fit into this scenario at all.The streets are very tight as they are with parked vehicles,some onto the pavements.Where would charging points be located in a Conservation Area,would cables trail across the pavements?Would the village's power cables stand the load of commuters' cars all plugging in at teatime?Newcomers to the area seem to be addicted to large 4wd vehicles and they have multiples of them in their households which already clog the place up without them all plugging in to on street charging as well.
This situation will not be a unique one outside of urban areas.I cannot help but feel that the" Powers that be" have jumped onto a fashionably "green" electric bandwagon without seriously thinking it through.
For a host of reasons I think that hydrogen cell technology may be the Future as fuel companies already have a nationwide network of stations which could be converted to fuelling hydrogen powered vehicles.EVs may not be the panacea that they are being cracked up to be?
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Ev chargers is just one of many other things that energy companies may "need"to reduce power to via "smart meters"
