Alde Fluid Loss
I have the Alde 3020 heating system and experiencing a consistent loss of fluid amounting to 125ml a month whether or not the caravan is in use. The dealer, Adventure Leisure, which has a vg workshop has had two attempts to trace any leak and I have searched with negative results. Some pipes are hidden behind cupboards etc. I never overfill but just maintain to the correct level on the expansion tank. The caravan is now 2 years old and there are no cold spots in the radiators and the bleed valves do not indicate any air in the system. I chatted with an Alde technician and she felt there were two possible causes, either a slight leak or the original fluid (yellow coloured fluid used by Hymer, was breaking down and evaporating. I wonder if anyone has experienced any evaporation loss. It is not a massive amount - about a glass of wine a month but I am more concerned about any damage that could result to the floor etc.
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Make sure that you have found and checked all of the bleed valves, our Swift was a devil for hidden ones lurking in wheel arch cupboards and behind seats.
When we had a header tank with circulating pump in the wardrobe, although there was no leak, the smell of the Alde fluid was always very strong in the wardrobe. Even so this level of "evaporation loss" was not enough for us to need to top up between services.
I would imagine that if you were leaking 125ml a month into your living space it would stink of coolant.
So I think it is leaving the vehicle,
Check that the drain plug has been fitted correctly, I have no idea where that may be on your caravan but I am sure someone on CT will be able to tell you if you let us know the model.
It could be a leak into the boiler, a leak into the gas burner for example would leave the van through the flue, worth having a "system off" sniff around there.
I believe (and I stand to be corrected on this) that the coloured dye in the coolant is fluorescent so a scan round in the dark with a UV (Notes checker) lamp may prove useful.
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Might be a silly question here, but what level are you filling it to. Lower level or max?
It should be checked when cold and be at the lower (min) level.
The high (max) is the expansion allowance.
Any fluid above the lower level will be discharged during use via expansion and the lever will return to the lower mark when cold.The fact that you are losing a constant amount, would suggest that may not be a leak.
A low pressure test done on the system should prove, if you think there is a leak. Your dealer should be able to undertake this, or contact Alde.likewise any good Plumber/heating engineer could do this.
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Many thanks Stephen, very helpful. I believe I have checked all available bleed valves and there is no sign of fluid dripping from the the drain valve and the workshop placed cardboard underneath to check for any drips. I have not noticed any smells but will try a sniff test including the flue. Presumably if dripping into the actual heater this would take place even when it is switched off and then evaporating away when the boiler is working. The caravan is a 2017 Hymer Nova 585
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Hi Freedom. Originally I filled it to the max fill line when cold and of course when in use the fluid rose about 15mm above the max. However the max line on the expansion tank is a massive 190mm below the top escape outlet which could likely hold another two litres of fluid so plenty of reserve room for expansion. Certainly I have never experienced the level approaching anywhere near an overfill even when the heating is on. Also as the fluid drops it continues to do so way below the minimum mark.
I understand the workshop did a pressure test but will get them to confirm
Many thanks
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Easy T I think this is the next step I need to have done. I can see condensation in the form of droplets on the inside of the expansion/fill tank above the actual fluid level. I am not sure whether or not this would occur anyway if the fluid strength was correct but as stated the Alde technician considered it could that the fluid is breaking down.
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I did have problems on a previous caravan at around 9 months old which was noted as likely low concentration of antifreeze. Dealer changed fluid and informed that the problem was still present Alde were on an annual closure and so the dealer asked if I would return the caravan when they could discuss the problem with Alde or would I be prepared to take the caravan to Alde dealership at the dealers expense, have a free service the following year for any inconvenience and they would pay my site fees. I chose that option and went down to Alde where they explained to me and the dealer by phone and e-mail why the heating layout was not up to strength and how to overcome. The fluid, after the dealerships work was just under 14% instead of 40% ( or was it more?).
I told the dealer to forget the £8 for my EHU pitch at a nearby CL as I had had a lovely afternoon and enjoyed my visit to the Alde workshop.
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That sounds like a rather large header tank. The alde one is listed as 1.5litres
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I am not sure I understand how fluid concentration can affect the level or lead to losses from the system.
Even the "broken down" fluid, if such a thing exists still can't get out of the system any more than fresh full concentration fluid can.
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Vapour can get out of the system I think. Beyond that I have no isea but there was a greater need to top up when the %concentration was low.
All I know are the following.
The lower the concentration of antifreeze th lower the boiling point
When our concenration we needed to top up. Not something that I need to do between services normally.
When the concentration was low the system was OK on 1kw but cold be heard to kettle on 2kw - a symptom of low concentration
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We have had a problem with ours. Five+ bottles in five years. The dealership checked a few times and could find no leaks etc. It is annoying, but it is a mystery I feel we may never solve unless we take the caravan apart bit by bit.
We picked it up from a service a couple of weeks ago, and it might have been nice if they had topped it up, as it is below the minimum line again. 🙈 Our dealership has not been the best though. If anyone can recommend a decent mobile engineer in south Cheshire, please do!
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Just to answer a few points. Firstly Freedom's point, my expansion tank is much larger than the one you have photographed. I estimate that it can hold at least 2 litres but would of course be more than the mid point max mark. Picking up on Easy T's experience my dealer is to take the caravan in for a complete fluid drain and replace it with the Alde fluid rather than whatever was put in by Hymer. Hopefully the correct strength will not evaporate although I too am puzzled why the loss reaches 125 ml every month. Many thanks everyone.
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We have had a problem with ours. Five+ bottles in five years.
That does seem a lot. When I visited Alde the engineer gave me a litre of premixed for topping up. Not sure how long it lasted but certainly 4.5 years, I topped it up having replaced the pump in the header tank just before I sold it from the same bottle. That would have been at least 500 nights+ on site.
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This is an interesting problem.
The fact that it’s losing the same amount of fluid points does point out to either an expansion issue or a leak at a relatively high point in the system as it’s a small loss. The lower the leak - the more would escape.
I would be looking at joints that are higher in the system especially air vents, and checking for the sign of corrosion. It’s a good idea to check with paper towel as this wicks up any moisture that the eye might miss.
As I suggested earlier, a pressure test would prove the soundness on the system.
i look forward to hearing what you find.
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When our van was new (2008) we had a similar problem with the fluid level dropping . Dealer could find no leaks, but when we used it the level gradually dropped.
In the end, in consultation with Alde, it was tracked down to a faulty pressure relief valve, which allowed the fluid to escape every so often.
Once replaced, we had no further problem.
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One of the three inbuilt points where the system could be losing fluid, not as a leak as such, is this Auto air bleed valve.
This potential "hidden" route can be checked by making a temporary modification to route its or an alternative vent tube into a yogurt pot.
Likewise the two other inbuilt routes, the header's vent tube that rises from the header, and the header's overflow tube, can both be monitored for activity with catch pots.
One point I would also check is the pump setting, if Hymer have used the Alde variable speed pump.[On my Hymer they sourced a fixed speed alternative to the use of the Alde pump].
Check the pump was not left, by the supplying dealer, running on the air purging setting position "5", post doing any PDI, they ought to have conducted; it should have been reset down to position "2".
A bit too vigorous pumping activity seems to accelerate "evaporation" of the fluid.
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Sorry, used the wrong term above, I should have called it the auto air bleed valve, as described by ocsid.
Ours had been installed squint so did not seal properly, thus allowing it to leak at random times when the system was in use.
It took months, between the dealer, Swift and Alde to agree to replace it. I had noticed that it was sitting a little squint, and reported this, but they did not initially agree that this was a problem. We went for months, losing a small amount of fluid every so often, before they agreed to replace it.
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We have a 2015 Nova and it has never needed bleeding or lost a drop of fluid. Just remember and I am assuming yours is the same as ours It is not a standard system so for example the header tank illustrated in an earlier post won’t fit. It is a bottom fill system, I also assume that you have the underfloor heating? Would it be worth isolating those valves to see it that makes a difference.
I took ours to Alde for the refill. I seem to remember that they borrowed a pump from Germany to do the change. Good news it took them less than 45 minutes to do the job and they thought the heat up time was the best they had seen.
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Very grateful for all the helpful replies. One thing I should have mentioned is that the fluid loss rate is the same even when the caravan is not in use. With lockdown the loss was the same slow but steady rate throughout that 3 month period. Just to answer Boff's question mine does not have the underfloor heating and I top mine up through the large expansion header tank. I will have a fresh check around the auto air bleed valve. The pump setting is on 2. So thanks for all the suggestions as it helps me work through a process of elimination.
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Ours is a 590 which has a transverse double bed as opposed to a french bed But I think the layout is otherwise similar I have only. Found 3 bleed points one in the washroom, one to the right of the door as you enter the van and one in the wardrobe next to the fridge. It seems strange it is dropping fulfilling even when it is not pressurised. I assume your header tank has only one inlet plus a breather pipe so it acts as an expansion tank and the fluid doesn’t circulate through it? I found Alde to be very helpful, but I did send them some pictures because our’s at least is not standard issue.
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Apologies for a delay in replying, I'm currently in the caravan on Anglesey with just 3g signal so have limited internet. Further to Boff's post my expansion tank has the following. One large black rubber hose connected to the base of the expansion tank (the same type as those joining up the various foil radiators). A further small diameter plastic tube which enters the expansion tank near the top left side. It has no fluid but has some condensation and a few bubbles. I presume this is the breather pipe. Finally there is a screw top cap with a short vent pipe to allow any topping up and any over fill to escape. I have the three bleed points in the same position as yours Boff.. Regards Tirril
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