Are we members of a touring club?
We've been members of the C & MC for many years and never thought too much about what sort of body we'd joined. I've looked and this website does not spell it out. The kind of service principles it strives to adhere to for all members are not mentioned, except in terms of quality, etc.
We'd enrolled, like many others, I imagine, for its more obvious benefits, club sites, CLs, etc. It has been noticeable, though, that what we'd always thought to be a tourers' club is no longer that. My Concise OED says a tour is "a journey from place to place as a holiday". Now the Club's outlook is very much of a "he-who-books-first-can-stay-here" and "the-earlier-you-book-the-better-for-us" coupled with "the-longer-you-stay-the better". So no one night stays for actual tourers, please. Oh, and "It's better if you don't camp in winter, please, so that we can close most sites."
Much of this has been evolutionary and one can imagine the driving economic forces which bring us here. It clearly satisfies several million happy users, and if it works, why change it? However, as more and more would-be tourers, especially motorcaravanners, choose to stay where they can for an odd night (legally or otherwise), perhaps the Club will eventually see that some minimal year-round provision is desirable for those who would like the peceived security of an authorised site together with the chance to replenish fresh water and dispose of waste. Conversely, perhaps a new sense of ecological responsibility will finally put paid to the fanciful notion of touring for a holiday, and one senses that the Club might not be too distressed by that.
So, is it a club we've all joined? Or perhaps an astutely run business with customers who pay an annual fee as well as periodic purchasing costs?
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Not sure where you get no one night stays from. That is permissible and we occasionally do it, along with 2, 3 and occasionally four nights. OK particularly if you want weekends you do have to plan ahead but that hasn't really changed in the 16 years we have been club members. We certainly use CAMC sites in winter, in our part of the world there are several open all year. Many more are only closed for 3 months. If there was sufficient demand I am sure the CC would open more if planning consents permitted.
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Club or business, does it really make any difference? The ethos of touring in this country without booking, although still possible, is very much a thing of the 'good old days'. The hobby has become a victim of its own success with demand for pitches often outstripping supply.
Whether people stay put or keep moving on is surely their own decision and I can’t see that the club is the 'driver' of either option. If you were talking about C&CC with their minimum stay limitations, it would be a different matter.
As for sites opening for a longer season, don't forget the opening period is often a condition laid down by the Local Authority.
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SteveL, I think you are reading into my words about one night stays something not intended. Apologies if they are confusing. Like you, we do often make short one-two night bookings when they are available. As long as one's flexible it can work. I was expressing - and probably not very well - a thought about whether or not the Club of the future will be any longer one for tourers, and the more I thought about it, I concluded that it probably won't. Re-thinking it must be that it's the majority preference of members not to be tourers in the keep-moving-on sense, and the Club simply satisfies that.
Tinwheeler, you make a fair point asking if it makes any difference. I wasn't really attempting to start any kind of debate about what's best, but just to elicit a view of some members who might or might not agree. Like a lot of the matters weighed on forums, the results will hardly be earth-shatteringly important to anyone!
On the matter of local authority consents, is the Club treated any differently to many more commercial sites which do, fortunately, remain open all year? In Cornwall, the only C&MC site of the 24 in Cornwall and Devon that open in winter is an affiliated, i.e. a commercial one, at Carnon Downs near Truro. Is that because of a perceived demand, or simply a C & MC requirement? If the latter it doesn't apply to affilated sites elsewhere.
Of course, it's a bit 'chicken and egg', in that if sites are closed, no one will come - the sort of argument used when local authorities close services after an online consultation they omitted to tell anyone about...
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On the subject of sites open in Cornwall all year round, Pard, there are very few of any type, whether commercial/private or club, as you must know. In fact, other than Carnon Downs, I'm struggling to think of one apart from CLs.
I conclude that the seasonal opening is either due to lack of demand or to Cornwall Council's stipulations. Whichever, it demonstrates that the club (both clubs, actually) is not out of step with other sites in the area. At one time Looe club site was open all year then it started closing after the Christmas/New Year period but now I think it shuts before Christmas. My statement bears checking out but it surely indicates lack of demand.
What affiliated sites do is up to them and their own licensing arrangements and not really something the club has a decision in.
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I seem to recall that when we first started, and caravans had no mains electric, just 12v or gas and few had TVs or showers or heating, booking was not as required as it is now, if at all.
In my mind its the advent of modern comforts that have increased peoples desire to partake in using caravans, the number of sites however, have not increased in line with demand, hence the constant shortfall.
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whether or not the Club of the future will be any longer one for tourers, and the more I thought about it, I concluded that it probably won't. Re-thinking it must be that it's the majority preference of members not to be tourers in the keep-moving-on sense, and the Club simply satisfies that.
we do often make short one-two night bookings when they are available. As long as one's flexible it can work.
Your definition of touring is much narrower than mine Pard. We tour but book our sites a few months ahead as we are not so flexible. We decide areas we want to visit and book accordingly. We don't usually stay one or two nights; generally we stay 5 nights as we find that most areas have sufficient things to interest us within a short drive to make that viable. Our only flexibility is around whose sites we use. Our first choice would normally be a CMC site but of course they do not cover all of the areas we might wish to visit on our tour route and there are a couple that I will not use. About 50% of our tour sites are CMC
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If this island was as big as mainland europe with the space that brings with it , then it could well be that even with the huge number of LVs there are on the roads these days . . have the opportunity for the days when "touring" was possible
I have just looked at several sites and all have availability mid week and two also for this weekend,
As mentioned in numerous threads on here it is quite possible to tour in this small overcrowded island, it just takes a bit more planning than it did years ago
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The Club is catering for a certain group of people - mostly older, many of them cautious, who like the security of booking far ahead, even though lots of them are retired and no longer tied to works holidays. The Club is meeting their wishes and preferences very well !
For others with a different outlook there are plenty of alternatives down here - no less than 240 sites in Devon and Cornwall which are open all year round. And as motorhomes continue to replace caravans greater spontaneity of touring will come back, and if the Club can't provide sites then private enterprise will.
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Over time I have seen that the club has evolved and I am sure will continue to do so whether any changes that may come will suit all members I am not sure.
My personal thoughts on what I see as (the main) 3 questions posted by the OP.
Are we members of a touring club? Yes I personally believe we as members are able to tour using the different pitch providers the club has. eg CL’s, affiliated sites and its own sites.
So, is it a club we've all joined? Yes I personally see it as a club.
Or perhaps an astutely run business with customers who pay an annual fee as well as periodic purchasing costs? Answer as above - I see it as a club and feel that for any club to continue to operate it has to be run in a viable way.
This question was in the middle of the post which - It clearly satisfies several million happy users, and if it works, why change it? IMHO the OP has answered his own question by saying ‘it works’.
We will continue to be members for as long as it provides what we need and in a way we are able to 'access' what it provides when we need to.
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"A certain group of people?" are you sure about that? as it seems that site at this time of year are full of children ,,although many seem to be with much older couples "looking after them?"
The use of many motor caravans seems to be the same as caravans without the flexibility, wh the amount of posts looking for sites with PT or Towns close by reflects
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I started with a trailer tent in 1980 and a caravan in the following year. I cannot recall how far we usually booked ahead other that at weekends we would usually phone about Wednesday afternoon or Thursday if going off on a Friday evening. That meant that when deposits were required we never had to send one as we would be there the same day as any deposit or earlier.
When taking a weekend break we were flexible as there were a dozen sites that we would often use plus a few CLs. Caernarvon, Conwy, Bridgenorth, Buxton, York, Hebden Bridge, Grange Over Sands, Kendal, Tarporley, Stow on the Wold, being the ones that I recall. However that flexibility was never needed. I also remember 25 years ago doing a 7 week tour with the caravan using 15 sites. I booked the 7 Friday nights only. I only had to change plans once and that was probably the August bank holiday when the Saturday was booked up. Definitely sites were less busy because I phoned ahead to each site the night before and arranged to arrive at 11am.
On our road their are 100 homes. There are at least 6 caravan or motorhome users that either store at home or or I know personally. When I moved here 30 years ago there was just my wife and I that had a caravan stored at home.
The biggest increase in caravan sales in UK was from 2000 to 2005 an increase of just under 30% and around 10,000 caravans.
In that same period there was nearly a 50% increase in New motorhome sales meaning an increase in new production in that period of nearly 5,000 vans.(and of course more self builds).
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I might be older but that means as no longer working my tours are longer and I know where I wish to be on probably a 500 or 700 mile tour. That does not require flexibility, beyond occasionally shortening or extending a stay or cancelling a site if I so desire. it does not need me to be more flexible to suit my wants. Nothing to do with being cautious, all to do with getting what I wish to have here and when I wish it.
It is a bit like if I wished a mainstream site to visit Chester it would be the CMC site because it is the best of the three well placed sites by far.
If I wanted to visit Boston and surrounds as we s=did last year it would be the same CL because it was exactly what I wanted, why should I wish the flexibility to choose a site that I have already discounted?
Oh, I get it now, you think that we oldies choose only CMC sites and book ahead to get a CMC site. I, and doubtless other oldies book ahead because we want whatever site it is that we want and (a bit like shopping on line for some folk) we don't want substitutions because supply of a desired product is short.
It is possible to not book when on a tour. I personally would phone the afternoon before. It might require some flexibility on occasion - I have no desire to be flexible.
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+1, as you say euroT it’s mainly older folk looking for ‘nice’ & ‘’samey’ JV also makes a point, young children with G/parents(older folk again) looking for the nice & samey that is reliable in its delivery👍🏻.
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I haven't always been old you know! Yes I use a CMC site when one is available. Originally because when I started there were some crap commercials and also for the CLs which I enjoyed using.
When I had children we often used club sites as well as commercial and CLs for pretty much the same reason. We would normally be out by 9am and back around 5pm.
I cannot think of one commercial site, in recent times, that has provided all my wants. Most Club sites do. The reason for using commercial sites and CLs at all is because they are placed where I wish to be and a club site isn't.
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Interesting OP from Pard. I think a lot of those members currently for one reason and another not overseas at the moment, (which would be their annual default), are looking at the Club, and not recognising it to a certain extent. Possibly been a good few years since they chose, or were forced into staying in UK.
It has changed in last 20 years or so, but so has the number of people who now own and use caravans and MHs. Huge uptake in ownership of such, and, it has to be said, the membership is predominantly older. Either folks like us who joined in our 20’s, or it’s viewed by some as a safe, samey product, the Marks and Spencer of the caravanning world. A given product, on the whole offering a known, tried experience, loved by a core who like life easy, neat, standardised across most sites, no surprises, slightly expensive at times. (Nothing whatsoever wrong with this, it’s a comfort zone, and folks are free to mix and match Club Sites from large to small, super serviced to no services at all, adding in the frisson of AS sites for a bit of “not quite the same adventure”.) Membership however does give access to the CL network, and this is where the touring arm really thrives, for those who don’t want the Club standard. Couple it with usage of some very nice small private Sites, and you find the UK, (relatively tiny island, not to be compared with the huge land mass of Europe) a very nice place to hop around doing one/two night stays easily.
Club’s do evolve, this one will continue to do so. Given is core age group it has to otherwise it will just shuffle off this mortal coil!
Two most irritating aspects for us down last twenty years? The loss of so many small, no facility options and more basic Sites. And as OP mentions, a short touring season with more Club Sites closing earlier, leaving only the kind of Sites we aren’t fond of open. It’s driven us to find alternatives for Winter, but we have found a life beyond the Club Sites that is much more to our tastes.😁
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PS, Club or business?
Business, lots of tentacles in many pools, some doing well, bailing out others that aren’t doing so well. Large HQ staff, dealing with lots of different business options. Club’s rarely require highly paid Finance, Marketing Directors and a Director General.
Its rather unique in the second (or first, depending on your preference) tier of unpaid involvement that survived from its real “Club” days.
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The club is going to be put to the test in the coming months due a drop in revenue here in the uk and in it's overseas dealings. August might be busy but what then?
I agree the OP has answered his own question but the next question will be "what happens next" after the adjustments for the Covid outbreak...no doubt more changes ahead. If businesses can't adapt they don't survive.
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That is where Europe has the space whereas this island does have borders and what keeps so mant within them which is also the need to book , but then even over there some tend to ensure a pitch by booking so "wrong again?" i think you do not know the UK market these ,and with thhe population over the whole of mainland europe then i expect some places to match the UK market but with so much more space to use it
Ps with the very large increase in new members and now it seems shortages of LVs it will only get more difficult to find pitches in the uk (check LA have never seen it so baren for weekends ,and with staycations here for the foreseeable future,it is even more of the "book early" to get what you want
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I never said you were🤷🏻♂️, I said older. To a 30yr old-40 & 50yrs old are older. I’m thinking you are mixing ‘older & elderly’👍🏻
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Open up all the sites to tenters, increase in revenue & the next-gen campers to LV’ers going forward. Become a multi generational leisure supplier not a 1 trick pony👍🏻. Happy to help👍🏻😊
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I suspect the Club is often between a rock and a hard place when considering the future. They know that currently they have a large core of members who are more than happy with the status quo. They have tried to encourage motorhomers to the Club who were previously not caravanners but beyond upgraded waste points don't seem to have been very imaginative in, how as a Club, they extend that encouragement for motorhomers to continue to join. Even something as simple as being able to book a hardstanding pitch seems not to be on the horizon? The Club have recognised, at least in a small way that they have to make changes with a nod to the future with the fixed accommodation. COVID is the elephant in the room as we won't know how that impacts on the Club until possibly into next year. I suppose we have to accept that the CMC is a very conservative organisation that tends to keep future changes very close to it's chest!
David
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