Bailey Unicorn Valencia S3 LED Indicators

Forest Gate
Forest Gate Forum Participant Posts: 103
edited July 2020 in Caravans #1

Hi All; 

Further to previous discussions re Bailey LED Indicators, does anyone know if it’s possible to simply change the LED bulbs for filament bulbs?

I have a feeling that the indicators are a sealed unit but as my van is in storage and not easy to check I was hoping someone out there could help.

The specific van in question is a 2015 Bailey Unicorn Valencia S3.

Many thanks..

Comments

  • EmilysDad
    EmilysDad Forum Participant Posts: 8,973
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    edited July 2020 #2

    I'd expect a caravan with led tail lights to have a complete led unit as you suggest, they're unlikely to be fitted with a led bulb. My car has leds at the back & it's a sealed unit.

  • Freedom a whitebox
    Freedom a whitebox Club Member Posts: 296 ✭✭✭
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    edited July 2020 #3

    I don’t think that you can just change over the led units to filament ones. Bailey actually fitted a modified bumper to change them over on some customers caravans, but ultimately they stopped fitting the led ( three lights) to the older style filament (four lights) on all later caravans.

     

     

  • Freedom a whitebox
    Freedom a whitebox Club Member Posts: 296 ✭✭✭
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    edited July 2020 #4

    Just looked up the price of the four light bumper and each one is around £90 and each filament light fitting is approx £28.

    From memory the resister box was around £90 when my  caravan was new. A bit pricey for a box of resistors, but it is just a simple plug in job.

  • Forest Gate
    Forest Gate Forum Participant Posts: 103
    edited July 2020 #5

    Thanks for the reply.
    The problem I’m trying to resolve is that the LED indicators don’t give me an audible or visual indication in the car that the caravan indicators are working.

    When you say resistor box is this the Ryder one? 
    I’ve looked on their website but haven’t found anything obvious for this issue and I’ve also looked at the Sargent Electrical site but it says their units are only for Swift caravans.
    I’ve spoken to the dealership but other than agreeing that this is a known issue, have had no other offers of help.

  • Forest Gate
    Forest Gate Forum Participant Posts: 103
    edited July 2020 #6

    Update: I've been to the van and checked the indicator unit and as suspected it is a sealed unit so the bulbs cannot be changed.

    Just spoken to Ryder who have given me details of what I will need to put this issue right. Approx £110 plus fitting!

    Oh well, it's only money!

  • EmilysDad
    EmilysDad Forum Participant Posts: 8,973
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    edited July 2020 #7

    My ML as the R Class before it, does not have a dash tell tale or accompanying buzzer to tell you the indicators are working, it just tells you when they are NOT working, but my caravan has conventional filament bulbs. 

     

  • EmilysDad
    EmilysDad Forum Participant Posts: 8,973
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    edited July 2020 #8

    Unplug a caravan tail light cluster & see what the car makes of it .... 🤔

  • Freedom a whitebox
    Freedom a whitebox Club Member Posts: 296 ✭✭✭
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    edited July 2020 #9

    Sorry for the long long reply below:-

     


    I had a similar problem to you, in that the dash trailer warning light would not show the caravan indicators working. But did on my previous caravan which had conventional filament bulbs.

    I tow with a Nissan Navara and this has the OEM fitted towing wiring loom. This has a towing relay , that I believe is to stop the vehicle canbus from  seeing the caravan lights and pulsing them.

    The downside of the caravans led lights is that they require low power to operate. This is not a problem for most of the lighting, but as the indicators aren’t drawing enough current, the vehicles warning light (bulb failure) can’t see them.

    The additional box, has resisters across each lighting circuit to pull more current and allow the tow vehicle to see this.

    On my set up (with the factory towing relay), resistors are only required on the indicator circuits (with led lighting). Having them across the other lighting circuits, gave the impression of bad earthing and caused lights to dim or flash when other lighting loads were switched on.

    I contacted Baileys technical team and they gave me a number to contact. (Ive checked and I don’t have this number anymore). I believe this was Sargent and on talking with them, it was suggested that if I thought this was a problem they could either make me a modified box or to open the box cut the resisters from the other circuits. Not wanting to do this , I just bypassed the circuits going to/through the box except the indicator ones. This solved my issue.

    I remember it being referred to as a Ryder box, but I just wondered if it was made by Sargent, hence being directed to them.

     


    Might be worth a call / email to Bailey’s technical department. Likewise Ryder or Sargent

     


    Hope I haven’t confused you and this is of some help

    John

  • Forest Gate
    Forest Gate Forum Participant Posts: 103
    edited July 2020 #10

    Many thanks for the reply which I appreciate but far too technical for me!

    I have contacted Sargent by phone but they were closed so I’ve emailed them. Similarly, I’ve emailed Bailey’s Technical Team. I’ve also spoken to a very helpful chap at Ryder who knew exactly what the issue was and has told me what I need to resolve it. 
    As I said in an earlier post the unit will be just over a £100 then I will need to find someone to fit it...

    As I said, it’s only money!

    Thanks again.

     

  • Freedom a whitebox
    Freedom a whitebox Club Member Posts: 296 ✭✭✭
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    edited July 2020 #11

    If you can handle a screwdriver, then you will not have a problem.

    They are generally a plug and play.

    If you lift the nearside bunk, then prise off the screw caps on the cubbyhole and remove it. You will find below the main caravan wiring loom, where the cable from the 13pin plug connects together. Simply unplug it and plug the unit between the two ends. Screw the box to the floor and replace the cubbyhole.

  • Forest Gate
    Forest Gate Forum Participant Posts: 103
    edited July 2020 #12

    That’s very helpful. Thank you. I’ll have a look at it next time I visit the van.

     

  • Forest Gate
    Forest Gate Forum Participant Posts: 103
    edited July 2020 #13

    An update on the LED indicator problem..

    As I said previously, the dealership from whom I purchased the van are not interested in helping with this and as they aren't particularly local it wouldn't be easy anyway.

    I contacted Bailey Technical Support who confirmed that they were aware of the problem and that they used to provide support to remedy it, but no longer. They advised that I contact Ryder and purchase their control unit which, once fitted, would resolve the problem.

    I contacted Ryder and subsequently purchased the unit but on receipt I found the installation of it beyond what I would be prepared to attempt.

    Far from being "plug and play", according to Ryder the caravan wiring needs to be "spliced" and the appropriate wires fed into the unit together with the supplied resistors and the unit then needs to be fixed to the chassis/body of the van.

    I started trying to find someone to carry out the installation for me but with little success. I received an intake of breath from my local Bailey dealer, less than 2 miles away, but in any case they have a wait time of several weeks, if not months before they could fit it in. The person I spoke to said it was actually easier to replace the whole rear bumper with a lighting assembly with filament bulbs!

    I have approached a couple of local mobile servicing engineers with a similar response although one of them has taken the unit away to have a look at it to see if it's something he can help with.

    I understand that a separate wiring loom can be purchased from Ryder which would make the installation more akin to "plug and play" but that this will limit where the unit can be fixed but having already spent over £100 to purchase the "fix" and that is before I've paid someone to install it, I am reluctant to spend anymore on it.

    It strikes me that this issue should have been the subject of a recall of all affected models so that no vans were left with LED bulbs, particularly indicators, but it seems I have missed out on any help that was available and will just have to keep trying. Hopefully, the engineer who is currently looking at the Ryder unit will be able to work it out.

  • Freedom a whitebox
    Freedom a whitebox Club Member Posts: 296 ✭✭✭
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    edited July 2020 #14

    This is what is fitted to my unicorn and came with plugs fitted 

  • Freedom a whitebox
    Freedom a whitebox Club Member Posts: 296 ✭✭✭
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    edited July 2020 #15

    Sounds like Bailey and Ryder are not being that helpful. 

    I don’t think that you will find that replacing the rear light would be a cost effective option. Not only are the lights and bumpers changed but also the rear wiring loom.

    If the box with the plugs is no longer available, you could find a local auto electrician to install the unit for you. It can be either fitted in the front of the caravan or at the rear underneath. Either shouldn’t take more than a couple of hours labour. It’s not that much of an issue for someone that is skilled in jointing cables.

    you could try a few caravan breakers to see if they have had a early unicorn 3,  come in with one fitted.

  • Forest Gate
    Forest Gate Forum Participant Posts: 103
    edited July 2020 #16

    My unit has the black "plugs" fitted to the box but not the trailing wires as your picture shows. I assume that these are the wiring looms that are  now sold as an optional extra.

  • Forest Gate
    Forest Gate Forum Participant Posts: 103
    edited August 2020 #17

    An update on the LED indicator saga on my Unicorn S3.

    As previously stated both Bailey and their dealership from who the van was purchased have been no help at all.

    I have continued to maintain contact with Ryder who have been helpful but it has been a slow process. 

    They originally supplied me with just the bare box and 3 resistors. When I asked them how I should connect the box and fix it in the van they talked about splicing into the van's wiring loom, (beyond me), and sent me a mounting plate FoC. 

    When I sent them the photo supplied by Freedom a White Box above they said that this is the unit they used to supply to Bailey but they would send me the wiring looms - if that would help! To be fair to them the looms arrived the next morning - again FoC.

    Last evening I met with a local mobile Caravan Service engineer who, although he had no previous experience of these issues had agreed to help resolve my problem.

    We followed the Ryder instructions to the letter, or so we thought but having got the resistors and the wiring connected there was no change in that I still had no audible or visual indication in the car that the indicators on the van were working.

    After much head scratching and reading and re-reading the diagramatic instructions; in fact it was just an enlarged photo with some lines drawn on it and colour list for the wiring, (which weren't entirely accurate), we started to think that what was described as the Output and the Input connections were actually the wrong way round - either that or we were looking at it upside down! Given that some of the wires were a different colour to what was described in the instructions we thought it was worth a try. Connections disconnected and swapped over and voila! It worked! 

    I've since received an email from Bailey Technical who helpfully suggested there was no problem with the caravan but the fault lay with my car ECU! They didn't acknowledge that the issue with the LED's has affected a huge number of vehicles and affected so many customers that they were forced at one time to apply the fix under warranty and then to return to fitting filament lighting to their caravans.

    Although not Ryder's problem they have at least stuck with me to help me resolve it - which is more than can be said for Bailey.

    I am grateful to everyone who has posted advice on here, particularly Freedom a White Box whose photograph finally made some sense to me and led to the final successful conclusion.

  • Freedom a whitebox
    Freedom a whitebox Club Member Posts: 296 ✭✭✭
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    edited August 2020 #18

    Glad you’ve got it sorted.

     

  • EmilysDad
    EmilysDad Forum Participant Posts: 8,973
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    edited August 2020 #19

    @ Forest Gate Caravaner ....  in that I still had no audible or visual indication in the car that the indicators on the van were working.

    but you don't need a visual or audible tell-tale to say that indicators are working, it's sufficient to know when the are NOT working ie rapid flashing like your car will do. 

  • lornalou1
    lornalou1 Forum Participant Posts: 2,169
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    edited August 2020 #20

    As above, but what actually shows now on your dashboard that the indicators are working. undecided

  • Forest Gate
    Forest Gate Forum Participant Posts: 103
    edited August 2020 #21

    Which is what I wanted... laughing