Considering re-opening a old CL
Sorry, long post...
We purchased a property almost two years ago that had a CL - (in Naunton, near Upton Upon Severn, see "Another Sad Loss" in the discussion forums from 2018). At the time of purchase, the Mortgage company wouldn't allow us to continue to take on and operate a CL.
I'm seriously considering reopening the site, getting all of the relevant permissions and certifications. I've never been a caravaner. nor have ever run a site like this before.
The Electrical Hook Ups are all still in place, and functional, there are outside taps etc.
Wonder if I could ask a couple of questions of advice:
1. The site has a toilet at the back of the garage, it probably needs a bit of effort to clean, spruce and fix up the roof. If a site DID NOT offer a toilet, is this a deal breaker? (I'm not sure if it's part of the conditions...)
2. Apart from water and electrics, what else do I need to offer? I'd put bins/recycling out, but what about water/waste from caravan bathrooms etc? I'm not sure what was done before.
3. I can't guarantee that the site hedges/grounds etc will be quite as well maintained as when the previous owners looked after it. Previous owners had one of them maintaining the site 24/7 whereas wife and I both work. Would a few weeds and overgrown hedges be a deal breaker?
4. How "hands on" would you want an "owner" to be? We'd be there for check-in/check-outs etc, but pretty much leave you alone unless you wanted questions etc. Would you want more interaction?
5. I'm currently storing a couple of "fixer upper" caravans for a friend. Would it put you off the site if you arrived to find a couple of old broken caravans in a corner of the site?
6a. Site was traditionally "adults only". We, as current owners, have children here. Would this be off putting?
6b. If we allowed children into the site, would this put some off? (Noting general lack of children's facilities and family oriented activities nearby)
Any input, thoughts etc to help the decision process would be appreciated.
I would consider offering a couple of free nights to experienced caravaners who would be willing and able to provide constructive feedback and a bit of help whilst on site on the logistics of what they would expect.
Thank you
Pete
Comments
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You'd just need to provide a chemical disposal point. I've seen various on different CLs from a lift up drain cover to an old toilet & cistern set into the ground.
The fact that you had kids wouldn't put me off from your site, but you can't please all the people all the time ... 😉
A toilet is not a requirement but access to the toilet at the back of your yard would be a plus point and not a deal breaker for me if it wasn't there.
CLs generally ask for waste water to be disposed of into the hedge rows ... no point in paying to empty a septic tank of a bit of soapy water,
A hands off approach is what you'd normally expect of a CL .. most are like you in that they work too. Some sites I've only seen the owners occasionally if at all.
The caravans in the corner might be off putting .... depends on how bad they looked!
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I don't know what the Caravan Club have as minimum requirements, but I would guess that drinking water supply and toilet & waste water disposal would be sufficient.
Some CL's don't even have electricity or toilets, just a partly mowed field and not much else. The more you have the more you can probably charge, such as electricity, toilets, hardstanding pitches etc. But some caravaners just like it quiet and simple. I'm not sure if any electric supply has to be checked annually and certified safe?
I guess it depends on how much work you want to put into it, what kind of site you want, what type of caravaners you want to attract and what income you want.
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Hello😁 We used The Willows as it was then known some years ago, and recall it was a very nice place, in a good location, with nice friendly owners. I have had a look back, and can see why at the time of taking the property over, that you had to close it. But how good that you are thinking of doing it for yourselves now.
To go through your list of questions, answering from our point of view....
1. It’s not a condition of opening a CL, but as the infrastructure is there, and I recall at the time of our visit it was a decent, clean installation, It will be of benefit to get it up up and functioning again, as some folks do prefer not to use their onboard loos. (We are fine with it, but others aren’t).
2. You need at the very least Grey water (sink and shower) waste disposal point, and then a well designed toilet waste emptying point. Both were there when we visited?
3.Visitors like things to look tidy and safe. Personally, an untrimmed hedge wouldn’t be a deal breaker for us (it’s best not to clip hedges between March and September for birds) However, well mown and most importantly, collected grass is important. If it’s a big area, you could look at keeping some areas as wildflower, mowing pitches and pathways. But visitors will not want to wade through shin deep wet grass😱
4. Some presence is good. Makes visitors feel more secure. At the very least an emergency contact number available 24 hours per day. A good information point (hut, notice board ??) would be helpful, especially for things like doctors, Hospitals, vets, local garage, local pubs, maps etc...
5. Yes, off putting. Put some screening round, hide them. Folks don’t want ramshackle and untidy around them.
6.a/b Tricky one. We would have no objection to it being A/O and your own children around, but on the understanding that they don’t play round the vans. If there’s little onsite and around for children to do, then you will need to be careful. We have been on one or two sites that have taken children, who have got bored, been poorly parented and it’s all kicked off from there😱
Similar with dogs. I seem to recall we had to use a footpath off site that was very overgrown and wet. If you do welcome dogs (and a lot of folks do travel with dogs) you need to consider where they could be walked, and either provide a walk area, or give details of where to walk them. A strict no fouling rule onsite and around your property needs to be enforced as well.
It’s a great location just off M5, and could be a nice little source of extra income, but not going to be something to earn a wage from with 5 pitches. It’s all about balancing expenditure and pricing. You are lucky in that most of the infrastructure required is in place. The Club, and the CL owners group are probably the best source of information for you at this point in time. Consult the Owners group first would be my advice😁
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And this link from the foot of the page -
https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/setting-up-a-certificated-location/
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I couldn’t think where it was👍😁
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Ha, ha! Down in the green bit 😀
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If it's the one I'm thinking of then the attached photos were taken of some features on site. Can't for the life of me remember what the CL was called but was run by a really nice couple.
We stayed en route back from Wiltshire to North Wales one February 2 years ago just before it was sold. Plenty of space and we were able to stay on the gravel pathway due to the weather and we were the only ones on site.
Regarding your question then they have been answered above by EM and Ttda. We have just this year stayed on an Independent site close to us that is Adult only and they have 2 children themselves . They merely keep the children away from the site. It is an attraction for some folk like ourselves, particularly at this moment in time and we shall be going to one such AO in a week or so.
Regarding being available. Don't worry as long as people can contact you and presumably you'll be living in the house on site so will be around some time during a day.
It would nice to see it open again, always assuming I'm talking about the same CL.
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It was called The Willows WN.......a Nellie recommend for us!
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Is it not possible for you to visit a few CLs (having contacted the owners, obviously)
As others have said there is a huge variety of CLs out there. Seems to be a greater wish for no elec sites again - but as you have got EHUs that will probably be more attractive to more.
As it was a CL before, presumably access is OK for long outfits.
As a motorhomer now I am more circumspect about grass only sites - would want to know that ground was firm.
If you were looking to develop further, enhanced grass where some sort of hard standing (not necessarily gravel areas) was available would be useful.
If site is suitable for motorhomes then most will want to be able to get close enough to tap to fill up their water tank with their own hose.
The more Cls in the network, the better.
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We stayed on the hardstandings area at the side of the house (it was November). Not sure if it’s still there.
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Good that you are thinking of reopening. My requirements would be water and waste (of course) plus electricity. As a motorhomer I too would prefer hardstanding. You don't have to cover the site with gravel but perhaps think that most motorhome are front wheel drive so even if it meant widening the access road so that in bad weather motorhomes could park their front wheel on something solid!!!
Re your comments about the "old "caravans. Not everyone will appreciate that and they could be a cause of negative comment in any reviews. With regard to the toilet. Given that you are both working you need to think how you maintain the toilet in a clean condition as I doubt you will be able to rely on your guests!!! Through no fault of your own it could be a liability so perhaps worth thinking about that. I think people are used to people not being around on CL's but perhaps a contact telephone number. Perhaps a welcome pack pinned to a notice board with a few local details and telling guests where things are would help in the respect of you not being around during the day. You will need to think about site maintenance as guests probably won't appreciate scruffy!!! Personally not bothered about it being adults only but some owners think it taps into a certain client base who are more likely to use a CL without children. It doesn't have to be set in stone you could change either way after a year.
I know it all seems a bit daunting but its really only a case of getting organised and plan how you would operate the CL and how that fits into your life.
David
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That's the one!! We've stayed there a few times, even in the snow and when all the water pipes were frozen up. There used to be a few fresh water taps round the field and the previous owner, Steve, encouraged us to pour our grey/waste water around the edge of the site. There was definitely a toilet/elsan emptying point, I think adjacent to the toilet(?). We would certainly use the site again given the opportunity, regardless of whether you allowed children or were AO. I used to take our dog for a walk along the lane, as there was not a lot of local traffic. As a regular user of CLs we are used to making do with our own facilities so should you choose not to open up the toilet that would not put us off from using your site either. It would be grand to have another CL in that area, again
Many on here are always will to pass on good advice, all you Ned to do is ask, Pete.
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If I remember correctly there was a blackboard on the garage to the right as one entered the drive where Steve left a contact number, and pitch choices.
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Agree Nellie, we would visit again as well. I could see it picking up some transit trade as well as long stays, it was ideal for a stop off using M5.
We are happy using CLs with minimum owner contact. Owners can be very busy people.
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Wow, thanks for all the comments. I will digest for a wee bit.
It was, indeed, the one called The Willows, run by Steve and his wife, although I believe it was a site before he took over. The couple of photos taken are interesting. Some of the "feature" items were left here, but Steve did take the Water Pump and the little lean-to over the wheelbarrow is now looking a little worse for wear having suffered some wind damage.
There's no guarantee we will reopen it - or will even be allowed to (we're trying to find the Mortgage Ts&Cs). I will need to think a little more... we'd have to put some investment into tidying the place up a bit. Unfortunately, a 24-7 phone number may not be possible, I am often incommunicado whilst at work, tending not to be at my desk, might need to give that some thought...
I'll go back over the comments (but do, please, keep them coming) and may come back with further queries or commentary!
Cheers
Pete
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There is a CL owners group on Facebook. I believe it is there to help each other out but you may welll actually have to have an open CL to join. If you do decide to go ahead there is the opportunity for on going advice from the experienced.
peedee
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I am pleased that you are considering opening again as we mainly use CLs and as far as we are concerned only need electric, water, and emptying points for the waste of both kinds. On many sites we have been told to empty the sink's water in the hedge and it doesn't bother us but I have heard some people don't like it.
We never use the site toilet but many do but I agree with an earlier comment that if you are not there to check it is clean it might be better not to include it. A review that it was dirty will put more people off than not having one.
The two tatty caravans are a definite no no.
I don't mind you not being around a lot of the time or available on the phone during the day but you must have the time to keep the grass short and pick it up.
Finally, on the point of children why not just say in your site description that there is nothing around for children so parents can decide for themselves whether you are a suitable site for them.
For us it is location, location, location followed by electric and views and it sounds as if you have all three of them. Hope that you decide to go ahead.
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Pete, talk to the previous owners of your property and ask how much income the caravan site generated, and balance that against the cost of getting it into shape and the on- going expense of operating it.
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Hi PeetC
It's great to learn that you are thinking of reopening the CL site.
If you have any questions please don't hesitate to get in contact with the CL's team. You can email us at clresponse@camc.com
If you decide to move forward with opening the CL site please could you complete the online application form.
We would ask applicants not to do any works on their land until they receive something in writing from The Caravan and Motorhome Club to say that we were happy to proceed with your site.
Thanks
Maddie1 -
Pete, not having someone around in the daytime wouldn’t be an issue for us, we have stayed on places where the owners don’t live on the Site. In this case, the main issue will be security, and if the electrics trip. You will know the area in which you live, and if it might be a problem. But I recall the pitching area is behind the house and drive, so outfits would be on the whole tucked away.
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Wow! That is a lot more than I thought CL owners made. It must have had a very high occupancy. I suppose though if that is income it doesn't take into account all the outgoings.
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A 5 pitch CL, open 365 days, at £15 per night has potential for £27,375. However that’s never going to happen. It would be lucky at half that. And then there’s the outgoings......
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One of things the Peet needs to consider is his own family's holidays. Who will look after the site if he has a holiday abroad, for example? Has he got someone close by he can rely on to handle problems and bookings etc? Otherwise he is going to be tied down. Maybe he's happy doing that but try to consider the downsides as well.
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Perhaps the friend who Pete is storing the caravans for would be willing to "site sit" if Pete and his family chose to go away on holiday.
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