Aires in the UK
Like many members who motorhome abroad I would like to see more provision in the UK similar to the Aires, Soastas, Stelplatz etc. that we find abroad. There is a facebook which has been set up for this purpose. Campaign for real Aires CAMpRA. If you are interested in helping to get this sort of facility in the UK you would be very welcome to join.
While CLs go some way to catering for aire type camping they are only available to us as members of this club, but are not readily available to visitors from abroad.
This is not a "wildcamping" group. In the present situation many campsites are not opening in 2020 and waste disposal facilities are urgently required. We are showing communities how they can levy a reasonable charge for providing facilities for motorhomers who are fully self sufficient and only need waste disposal every few days. We are also trying to get councils to allow more motorhome parking, both day and night, by showing the value of the motorhome market to those places who are already offering parking, such as the Little Roodee carpark in Chester.
Moderator Comment - Biggarmac I hope I have added the right link into your post?
Comments
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I think we've been down this road many times before.
As I see it, the biggest stumbling blocks are land provision and finance. I don’t believe anyone has yet come up with satisfactory solutions to that. It’s not fair to expect Council Tax payers, Income Tax payers or club members to find and purchase land and establish aires for the use of a minority of people who wish to scoot around the country but who don't want to use established sites. I await enlightenment.
The use of suitable council car parks is often a feasible option but needs to be self financing as it incurs a cost to the council.
I don't object to the aire or car park concept per se but do object to a minority seeking special treatment at the expense of the majority, especially when perfectly good facilities already exist. If businesses wish to set up such facilities, that's fine and good luck to them. That actually begs the question of why they haven't already opened aires. Could it be that they're unlikely to be profitable ventures?
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We are not asking for special treatment, but looking for ways to both help motorhomers who prefer to travel without booking ahead, and communities who are looking for a revenue stream.
There are facilities like this in the UK, but not many as communities are not aware that this could be a source of money for them. Island communities in Scotland have cottoned on to this market. Huisinish Gateway run by the South Harris Trust and the Camping system for the Island of Tiree are two you can check on. On the mainland Glencaple and Caerlaverock in Dumfries and Galloway are leading the way. In Yorkshire Craven District Council has realised that this is a suitable revenue stream for them- with little outlay for them.
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TW has pointed out why aires are likely to be a non starter ,in any consequence in the UK as it is all down to finance, and that is all areas now and for quite some years to come will take quite some managing
The cc have advised that £23 million has been lost so far this year, and if reports in the media are anywhere near correct people are vary reluctant to anywhere now ,so every where savings rather than spending is the buzz word (unless its the government)
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well you are asking for special treatment, as you are asking for public funds to build and maintain these new aires for your, or MH use. Either from local or national government. Why do you think this should this happen? There is a finite pot of public money and rather than spend it on things perhaps we all use, like roads, schools, public services, policing, the NHS even, you want some of this public money to fund your preferred way of using your outfit, ie not booking ahead.
You are advocating taking money that could be used for the poorest in our comunities and giving it to those who have MH whose cost the poor can only dream about. A sort of Robin Hood in reverse. Take form the poor to give the rich a better expereince in their MHs
Maybe local shops and services would hook into this revenue stream but maybe then they should pay for it?
This is not being anti MH, I would say the same if someone suggested using public funds to build caravan type aires.
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I beg to differ, you are indeed asking for special treatment for motorhomers. While it might also benefit local communities once they have financed the set up, it is not a facility that will be available to all.
I assume you are referring to the North Harris Trust's Huishinish camping site and admit I am not familiar with that one. However, I am familiar with the West Harris Trust's set up which consists of two fairly normal sites which aren't cheap and a series of lay-bys where overnight parking of MHs is permitted in return for a small (£5?) fee. The latter contain no facilities other than a rubbish bin. None of this prevents wild camping in off piste areas and I doubt benefits the local community to any great degree.
A far better example of establishing pitching for MHs and caravans whilst benefiting the local community is the set up of community sites in Shetland. Most are manned by volunteers, are set up in village hall car parks, on marinas and so on and the majority have facilities. They definitely help the communities by bringing visitors to the area. However, and this is the big difference, there were previously few, if any, campsites on Shetland and the community sites were established with the help of EU funding which means the local communities benefit without having had to dig deep. These sites were a new venture and they brought tourism to an area that needed it and were not sites set up alongside other established sites to only satisfy motorhomers.
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Good point, There’s a momentum in increasing motorhome sales but it’s not matched by dedicated facilities in the way that many forward thinking european countries/cities have done. I think the Club should have explored that option for the proposed Bristol site instead of trying to perpetuate a format from the past that may not find favour locally. There’s are always plenty of ‘half-empty’ folks who tell us why things can’t be done, but what’s needed is a fresh perspective based on how motorhomers do things, which is very different to many caravaners.
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That’s a good point about Bristol, SB, but don’t forget that this is the Caravan and Motorhome Club and such a site should be available to all members. 👍🏻
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When this has been discussed before (oh yes, it has!) it has been pointed out just how many such facilities actually do exist out there if one takes the time to research them - Britstops and pub sites amongst others have been mentioned frequently.
I find it staggering in the present circumstances that there should be even a hint of local authorities being asked to consider any sort of financing for a relatively small number of users (as evidenced by the relative lack of support for "interesting petitions" in the past.)
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Pragmatism would say back the winner. Better to have an aire than nothing, that way at least some members get to benefit, rather than we all lose.
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David, I take a realistic viewpoint.
I know the OP has not asked the club to set up aires - we've been there before. It all comes down to money and is nothing to do with anyone's preference for club sites - I use all types of site, btw.
My objection is to the majority being asked to fund something non-essential for a minority. Provision of aires for MHs who prefer not to book in the present economic climate. Really, how short sighted! As I said, if businesses wish to do it, fine, that won't be a financial draw on tax payers.
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But why differentiate when it can be for all? I don't pay a higher membership fee so why should I get extra benefits? Equity for all!
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Has anyone actually said "we don't want it"?
It matters not to me since we're not touring any more, but surely even the most enthusiastic supporters would balk at suggesting this sort of expenditure by councils or even clubs at exactly this time? And am I wrong in thinking that there are many options already out there? I'm sure on a previous similar thread a whole list of possibilities was pointed out. (May have been PD but I stand to be corrected on that.)
Maybe petition Richie Sunack to stump up some cash but I honestly think there are other priorities just now aren't there?
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I don't see the OP asking for the CAMC to provide these aires and as such do not see any problem with the OP posting as she did.
If cities are looking to increase, or even stem the decrease, of visitors then they should be looking at providing some way of enticing M/homers into them. That won't be the major problem. That will be getting them to find their wallets.😂😂😂 Only joking folks.
Brown field sites abound near larger cities. Modern technology can do most of the work, regarding paying and booking in, barriers, codes etc.
Even if they don't wish to provide aires they could provide suitable parking areas either in towns or P&R. We were impressed with the parking area designated for Motorhomes at Bury St.Edmunds Car park in the centre of town and Chester P&R.
Just as long as the Club isn't being asked to provide anything beyond advice.
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Absolutely nothing isn’t much use to all.
We pay fees for a range of services to meet the needs of members. We’re not all the same ergo some differentiation is appropriate to cover the range of needs - equality and ‘diversity’, it’s all the rage at the moment.
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You’re not making a lot of sense there, SB. Where has "abolutely nothing" come from?
I can’t think of one single service the club provides that a member is barred from taking advantage of which would be the case for caravanners in the scenario you suggested.
The club treats all members equally irrespective of current rages👍🏻
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Good post, WTG.
A business case needs to be made and, as I said in my first post, no one to the best of my knowledge has yet supplied an answer to the questions of land acquisition and finance.
Such parking places need to be self financing one way of another so as not to put a drain on local economies and, until that can be clearly demonstrated, I cannot see any progress being made.
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I tend to agree with WTG's approach above.
Most of the petitions have failed for several reason, the main one being the demand that Aires should be provided as a right. There needs to be a much more subtle approach. It won't happen overnight but there is a need to cultivate relationships with tourist boards both local and nationally. I somehow doubt either of the Clubs will come on board because of the potential loss of income. Initially it would be a good idea to identify say half a dozen locations where such overnight solutions could be sited and then try to bring interested parties together. If that strategy was successful it would provide a lot of facts and information to extend further. Apparently Portmeirion has recently open a motorway parking area which can be used overnight. I see a potential for this sort of thing at other attractions but they need convincing that the investment would be worthwhile. I can think of many large National Trust properties where a small Aire could enhance income to the Trust if they could be persuaded. I think you have to start with fresh ideas compared to what has been suggested in the past. A bit pointless trying to replicate what is available abroad as most that need persuading are unfamiliar with the concept.
David
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I can’t think of one single service the club provides that a member is barred from taking advantage of which would be the case for caravanners in the scenario you suggested.
Motor home service/waste disposal points, with regard to caravanners!!
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Made sense to me... insist on Bristol campsite or nothing, or moderate plans if an aire has a better chance of succeeding.
I don’t know the finer points of the proposed site, but it seems there is some planning history which doesn’t bode well for future proposals in the mould of Baltic Wharf. Bristol likes to see itself as a young, creative, dynamic and cultured city. Any planning proposals need to press those buttons, and the stereotypical image of the traditional camping site with folks sat in awnings drinking wine and bbq burgers won’t cut it.
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The difference being, Nellie, that I don’t believe caravanners are barred from using them if they have a need but the reality is that caravans have no use for MHSPs. Whereas aires set up just for MHs would not be available for caravans.
I don’t recall MH-ers calling for the provision of MHSPs and the points aren't a necessity and we could manage without as we do on CLs. However, the club choses to provide them and, as they stop MHs blocking ordinary service points, they do actually serve caravanners as well as MH-ers 👍🏻.
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Well, I’m glad it makes sense to you 😀
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Quite a lot of campsites in Europe (privately owned and municipal) have established night stops for motor caravans. There is a service point usually near the entrance and motor caravanners can use the site facilities. The pitches are smaller, a bit more like a spacious car park, Fees are low. Electic hook ups are not included. These night stops provide the service being requested by the OP. UK caravan sites are perfectly able to do this if they feel it is viable. As for motor caravanners bringing income to the community, I think this is probably a theory with no tangible substance to it at all.
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Aires in UK may happen sometime. Local authorities do provide some provision. If we are ta;king town areas then, during the day a parking space might generate £10 or much more. Would motor homers wish to pay for 2.5 spaces given their length for some and also safety clearance. If we look away from towns then is the income for the space worthwhile? If it was why are entrepreneurs not jumping on the bandwagon?
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I'm not sure about the selfishness argument. Many book multiple sites a year in advance and rush to get "the best pitch". That looks quite a lot like "me,me,me" from here. Equally the "catering for a specific group" is also spurious. I have neither a dog nor children yet there is expenditure to provide these facilities. In the public domain, provision of cycle lanes serve only a specific sector of the community as do 'subsidised' bus routes. All these things are seen in the context of a wider public good. Cannot the provision of aires be seen in the same context?
The only true argument seems to be the economic one yet it does seem successful "over there" and indeed there is a quite extensive chain providing such a service in France - CampingCarPark.com.
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The motor-home in the uk is often seen as something to be avoided and blocked by many local authorities. Small car parks, small spaces, height restrictions on some street parking and height barriers, no sleeping overnight restrictions and even some no cooking signs, even some park and rides make it difficult or impossible and as a result I think we are a long way from uk aires just yet.
We tend to go somewhere more inviting as we have no desire to impose ourselves or indeed spend in a town which doesn't welcome us. One town I recall which was accommodating was Lyme Regis, large vehicle spaces, aimed at motor-homes and mini buses, and the same price as a car space to boot. Skipton in North Yorks also has a few MH only bays, with overnight stays permitted, but these are quite rare finds.
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Some flaws in your reasoning there CY
I have neither a dog nor children yet there is expenditure to provide these facilities
On club sites you mean? In which case you don't have to join the club. You can keep your money in your pockek and decide what to do with it. In parks and in society ? Well I would say there are significantly far more children and dogs in society than MH and the welfare of children is of more importance than letting the MH onwers have somewhere to park overnight? Certainly in my book anyway.
In the public domain, provision of cycle lanes serve only a specific sector of the community as do 'subsidised' bus routes. All these things are seen in the context of a wider public good.
Again nothing to do with a wider public good, In 2018 42% of British people have access to a bike, 28% use them on a regular basis, that is about 18.5 million people. When MH owners approach this level then perhaps public money should be spent on them?
And again bus routes are subsidised to allow people to be able to use and have buses, these are necessities for some, not everyone was as fortunate as you to have an apartment in the sun and to be able to afford a MH now. Some use them to be able to work?
It is also about reducing pollution levels which you have often talked about?
So the wider public good, your phrase, how is spending public money on giving you, or one cheap overnight accommodation in your MH in the wider public good?
There is a Marguis MH dealer just on the main bus route into Newcastle nearby. Right out front are all the expensive models, £40,000+ some at £60,000. Do you think that those using the bus every morning would look at those figures and would think it perfectly OK for their taxes be used to pay for those buying MH to be given cheaper overnight, or even free stays? Those MH probably cost easily more than their yearly pay.
Never mind it is successful over there, how can you justify that CY over here?
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