Corona Virus Concerns
Comments
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for once we agree, but without going into great detail as to how, since the war years Germany has spent its money, or put its brains to better use, etc, it was a known fact that even before corvid-19 Germany was way ahead of the western world in the number of laboratories it had up and running using lots of different companies develping new vaccines, providing testing facilities, tracking and tracing etc. We did not have this in the UK quite simply because for generations we have not invested enough money into these areas, so the fault lies firmly on the shoulders of successive governments going back generations, and those at the sharp end just now are feeling the pain.
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When you consider that our local hospital has had twice the total deaths of Australia, then no one can say we have done well or even average.
I agree their land mass is far greater but most of their population is confined to major cities so could be classed as similar to parts of the UK.
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So, do we believe the figures produced by worldometer or not? It's been quoted on here before now but apparently we now read that it's been discredited.
In the end it matters not, our government have been shockingly complacent throughout - they claim to be following the best scientific advice but, apparently SAGE were not even consulted about the latest bizarre quarantine scheme and most of the leading scientists are extremely concerned about decisions to ease the lockdown in the way it has been.
(And before I get jumped on for criticising the government, they are the ones in charge, making the big decisions - none of us have the slightest idea how others might have handled it.)
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I don't think you should be judging the government on how well they have dealt with the pandemic, by simply comparing how many deaths have occurred due to covid19 with other countries. I suggest it would be better to compare the number of excess deaths from all causes compared with the past 5 year average for each country and see what the results are. It may well turn out that the UK still have the bigger difference % wise, but it would be a fairer comparison in my opinion. After all, a death from whatever cause is still very upsetting for all families.
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Why does it have to be the same? The bottom line is that some Governments (some rather surprisingly) have acted swiftly, decisively and very clearly, not delaying, hedging and fudging like our Govt, and are coming out of this a whole lot better than we are.
Personally, I think that there has been a tiny bit of British bravado, that “oh it won’t happen to us like that, we are super efficient and prepared for anything” tendency that occasionally underpins all the shocking disasters that happen in this country. Things like this happen elsewhere...... (flooding, Grenfell, etc....)
Well hello UK population. Welcome to the reality of our badly underfunded NHS system, our broken Care system, our none existent capability of manufacturing a great deal of the emergency supplies and PPE that would have been so useful, our local services that run on a shoestring, our depleted Police Force (so vital for ensuring compliance if a severe lockdown had been imposed), our shocking domestic abuse and vulnerable children, our homeless, our elderly totally reliant upon the goodwill of neighbours. This is our reality, thankfully mitigated to a large extent by a wonderful early community spirit and willingness that even our own Govt found surprising. How long this will last is another debate entirely.....
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Did you read of those "tourists" from Bolton who stopped a policeman in Snowdonia NP and asked him to recommend any good sights to visit? Or the Cannabis toting motorist from Chester who was stopped due to the smell emanating from his car near Betws-y-Coed? Boot full of Cannabis, no insurance, no driving licence, over the limit on drugs, on his way to the beach?
Must make the job a bit easier for the Police to have such thickos around.
Stay as safe as you can Fish.
I'm searching eBay for a second hand cattle prod. Preferably 2 metres in length.
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So, do we believe the figures produced by worldometer or not? It's been quoted on here before now but apparently we now read that it's been discredited.
Emphatically, no. There’s not enough information underpinning the data, and it’s clear that countries record deaths in lots of different ways.
I'm searching eBay for a second hand cattle prod. Preferably 2 metres in length.
I am seriously thinking of getting my old equine schooling whip out to take on bike rides with me, a good slap on a too close windscreen used to fettle a lot of fools.😂
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in my view the biggest mistake made was in not introducing lockdown soon enough. Its been an uphill struggle ever since and it is by no means over. They should never have allowed the Cheltenham Gold Cup meet to go ahead or the Liverpool Madrid champions league match. If they had done this we may have had less cases and no PPE shortages. and coupled with the addition of quarantine for those entering the UK, it would have given a better chance of containing the spread. In short the government were too slow to act.
peedee
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I did question the holding of the Cheltenham Festival at the time - the official line seemed to be that the virus was less likely to be transmitted outdoors than in - almost certainly true, but irrelevant when you consider the thousands crammed into the stands shoulder to shoulder over those 4 days. The did take precautions though - 24 hand sanitising stations according to local news reports!
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(And before I get jumped on for criticising the government, they are the ones in charge, making the big decisions - none of us have the slightest idea how others might have handled it.)
so very true, but as i have said, we will have expensive enquiries into why this government was seen to fail, that will take years to come to a conclusion and at the end of the day tell us what ?????
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To be blunt, they will tell us that the people we voted for aren’t up to the task of running the country in many instances. The sad bit is the expense of the enquiries when we already know this.....
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I quite agree peedee. I have been to the Cheltenham Gold Cup every year for the past 30 years or more, except when the foot & mouth epidemic was here, but this year I gave it a miss even though I had already bought the tickets. If a simple sole like me could forsee that it wasn't a good idea to go with a pandemic on surely the wise men in the government should have seen it as well.
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Wow!!! good rant, but to answer your question, it matters to a large extent because e.g. population density/ land mass did dictate to an extent how the virus spread, for some countries enforcing lockdowns etc is not a problem, e.g. I have worked in Korea and China and if a policeman says jump you ask how high, not spit in his face, well not if you value your life, so things such as social differences do matter
Personally, I think that there has been a tiny bit of British bravado, that “oh it won’t happen to us
totally agree, and regretably we have been there before but never learnt the lesson, but we are not alone
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Our NHS would not be underfunded if it was not so overwhelmed ,by many who being with it being a free service compared to other countries , milk the system ,, with as noted, the A&E departments being almost empty recently,
OH has had two visits to the clinics in our Urgent Care Centre and we noticed how quiet it was
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Have the government failed though?
ok some decision making may be questionable, lack of Care home protection was the worse IMO (especially after seeing the abandoned care homes in Spain with the residents just left to die) but that happens when dealing with the unknown
Billions of pounds have been put into furlough, bailout and support to safeguard jobs workers and the vulnerable all of the long term endemic problems of old stock supply and demand which are not new but go back to beyond the Blair years have been put right, these things cannot be fixed instantly which is what seemed to be the opinion, but have been solved in real time very rapidly by individuals. A government cannot stop a virus but can inform the population of how to protect themselves which as far as I am aware, they have done. If the people do not abide by the advice (protesting, beaches, parties, raves etc) how is this the governments at fault?
But our country remains safe
This Government was voted in by the people and should be supported, questioned yes, but definitely supported. We could all move to America and see what happens...….
Cauldron stirred
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Cheltenham Festival? Money talks.
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Oneputt
I imagine you didn't watch yesterday's Newsnight? It did mention that the UK's daily death rate, which for the day in question, was greater than the total for all EU countries but then Nick Watt was very careful to say that the figures should be treated with caution because of how they were compiled and the timeline. Newsnight also showed the official graph used in the UK daily press conference. As to the FT comment I am not sure what article you are referring to as this one by John Burn-Murdoch on the subject does indeed mentions that Spain has adjusted it's figures (as no doubt many countries will in time?) but there is no mention of the other things you mention unless of course you quoting reports on the reports?
David
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I just assumed that there must be some wise men in the government. I don't know them that well to judge them any differently. Surely the country couldn't be so stupid to be fooled into electing them into office, especially with such a thumping majority.
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One of the many things that are wrong with this country, seems to not be so prevalent elsewhere with regards to our elderly population, it seems , is the lack of family responsibilities, towards them ,although wi some of the Bame fatalities have come about by being in large family groups
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