Dealer spec noseweight overweight
We were virgin caravanners last May when we collected our Eldis Supreme 860 from the dealer. We were advised we needed a leisure battery and a gas bottle, sadly I had sort of expected it to come with such necessities but hey ho I had to stump up,
No check on nose weight was done when we drove off and through our first season I struggled to load the van to keep the weight under the magic 100kgs per the Alko advice.
I have had a duff battery and this week was able to measure the with and without battery nose weight. With, adds about 15kg to the nose.
Today I emptied the van, stripped bare to its dealer delivery weight, van plus battery and gas bottle. Nose weight 115kgs.
Restocked the rear locker under the bed with standard kit of a couple of chairs and the jack and various essential which would normally travel there, nose weight 105kgs.
OK I now have a benchmark to work with and an understanding that I need more in the rear to get down to 95kgs and on top of that for every 10kgs in front of the axles I need to counterbalance to the rear.
The only non standard item on the van is the dealer fitted motor mover as part of the deal which they fitted in front of the axles.
My puzzle is surely the vans should be designed in the factory to take standard kit and as a standard piece of kit be within the nose weight tolerance?
Does anyone else have the same problem?
Comments
-
Lots of vans have a similar problem, they seem to be larger vans with fixed beds. I take it you are aware the cars noseweight allowance should not be exceeded if its less than the Alko 100Kgs. Unfortunately only careful loading provides a solution, bearing in mind the MPTLM
0 -
I remember having the same problem with our Bailey which had a nose weight of around 85kg but this seemed to increase above 100kg as soon as I started to load it. The remedy was to back end load it which is contrary to all the advice but the only way to achieve a manageable nose weight.
0 -
We have never carried two gas bottles because of nose weight issues and we find that we usually eat our way through 10 kg of nose weight while we are on site. I check the nose weight before each journey and even though we have roughly the same in the caravan each time I often have to move things into or out of the front locker.
Start off by following all the loading guidelines, low down over the axle etc. awning, food & drink come with us in the car, then have your caravan weighed at a weighbridge. Beyond that it is just fine tuning the balance, I find it is best not to get too worried about loading at the back to get the nose weight correct, you don't need much weight in a rear washroom (in comparison with the weight of the caravan) to balance things out, remember taking 5kg from the front locker and putting it in the back saves 10kg of nose weight.
0 -
You need to make sure you are not exceeding the car nose weight limit if lower than the Alko figure too. It may help if you drain down the hot water tank before travelling, can save 10kg on nose and payload weight. However to expect the caravan manufacturer to know what you will carry in your caravan is asking the impossible, there is plenty of information available on t’internet to help with loading however do not put so much weight to the rear you end up with a pendulum effect. If the caravan MTPLM can be upgraded it might worth doing that - providing it remains within the towcars legal limits and whatever tow weight ratio you are comfortable with.
0 -
I bought a new Swift Challenger 560 in 2017. A friend had previously advised me to load as much weighty kit in the boot of the car...given we have a very spacious boot...good advice really
However, on changing the van and having only one gas bottle in the front I found the noseweight to be 130kg, My limit was 90 so vastly in excess.
So my model had a fixed bed, and also bike mountings on the rear which we don’t use but suspect that the van was balanced to take account of a lot of weight being loaded towards the rear.....not that even with an increase in the plated MPTLM could we load much!
Doing what you have done is the only way and then trial and error. I have found though you need to be careful where you put the weight. The key in ours seems to be to the rear of the fixed bed but making sure each side of the van has some balance...tricky as ours has the spare wheel below the head of the bed. To much in the rear bathroom makes it very unstable to tow. So getting the noseweight down to the right level isn’t the only issue if it is wagging like a dogs tail when towing.
To reassure you, I have found a way to do it and meet all the above, but I regularly check the noseweight gauge as minor changes make a massive difference
im not sure what I would do if I had to carry two gas bottles....glad I have a Safefil
0 -
I understand your comment but it is down to the user to check the nose weight before using the caravan. Manufacturers are in a no win situation, they would be criticised if the nose weight was at maximum when the van was empty as you would never be able to balance it with your payload installed.
We were lucky enough to buy new when we started and when we collected our first caravan we had two full gas bottles and the usual first time kit (cable, aquaroll, wastemaster etc etc) and the nose was way too heavy. We ended up with the new awning in the caravan beside the fixed bed before we could travel home. If that had not worked I was thinking of putting water in the aquaroll (a good 40kg of ballast).
However! once loaded with our goods & chattels, the nose weight became more reasonable, we took out the spare wheel with carrier and one gas bottle to give us more payload (compensates for the m/movers) and with wardrobes and under bed lockers (all behind the axle) used as we wanted, final adjustment was down to the hook up cable under the bed or in the front locker.
I will just mention here that weighing the caravan once loaded was an eye opener we ended up just 10 kg short of MPTLM, we gained an extra 30 odd kg by paying (through the nose, the most expensive sticker I have ever bought) for a plate upgrade. Which I might add the dealer had advised against because it reduced the market when the van was second hand.
I rather flippantly mentioned that we eat our way through 10kg of nose weight while on site but food is in the kitchen (near axle) and does not affect nose weight much, really the change is down to our preference to store the laundry bags in the shower tray (rear washroom). These are easily moved forward before we travel.
0 -
Thanks to everyone for their advice. Now I have the basic understanding the van is inherently nose heavy I just have to live with it and plan the loading accordingly, and live with it.
I think a number of stack able plastic boxes will be used to store contents of lockers at decamp time, position in van and/or car as appropriate, check weight and head home.
Arrive at site, unload boxes, tidy up, enjoy.
0 -
"My puzzle is surely the vans should be designed in the factory to take standard kit and as a standard piece of kit be within the nose weight tolerance?"
Of course they should, but sadly the only element of design that this industry here in the UK seems to bring to their products is "styling", not the functionally critical "engineering" element.
Unfortunately, I suspect the great bulk of buyers considers little if anything more than the "wow factor", The the initial impact, the cosmetics, the layout and the presence a van offers, or such things like the construction, payload and safe in use noseweight, would be very different to what is on offer.
2 -
Couldn't agree more with you ocsid.
We had to buy a "new" caravan last year and opted for a 2 years old little used model but before that we looked at what was on offer for the new 'vans. There was a Swift that fitted our layout requirements but several features found inside were totally impractical.For example, a Pan space under the cooker that could fit 2 very small pans but only if put in sideways. Why have a 4 ring hob then? etc. Payloads that meant you had to leave everything at home.
We now buy based on payload first, layout second and livability third. Everything else is a bonus.
0 -
Styling shouldn't influence noseweight.´In the design stage, noseweight could easily be reduced by the manufacturer by simply moving the whole body of the caravan back relative to the axle, without changing anything inside. It would have a further advantage of increasing the length of the A-frame, which is often mentioned as a measure to improve stability.
0 -
I agree about towing benefits up to a point Lutz, however that would make shipping lengths even longer. I see many continental brands (such as Adria) have long A frames with layouts that would work for us. Unfortunately the Resultant shipping length is too long. However to go back to ‘wherenext’ above, are you really serious about the pan cupboard? I didn't realise pans could only go in the designated pan cupboard - i must move mine next time i am at my Swift caravan.
0 -
So true, "Styling shouldn't influence noseweight", so you need some "design tool" to address that nose weight issue.
As you say one tool is to move the body on the chassis, a practice I know one builder in your country practices. Here, as we so often hear the noseweight is so challenging, that you have to conclude it could never even have been calculated in the "design stage".
That moving the body on the chassis affects shipping length is clearly evident, so clear that the potential buyer ought to take that onboard.
A screwed up "in use" noseweight is far less apparent to the potential buyer till they have commited and put their purchase "in use"!
0 -
As an alternative to simply moving the body rearwards relative to the axle, through computer aided design, the manufacturer has the ability to provide a weight for each component, right down to the last screw, and calculate its effect on the noseweight. By jiggling around with load distribution of units and respective relocation of heavy components such as the battery, heaters, fridges, gas bottles, etc., the noseweight can be adjusted in the design stage. Of course, it does require comprehensive computer based assistance right from the start of work on the drawing board, but at least major manufacturers should have the necessary resources to do that.
1 -
In the UK it's probably all still done on the back of a fag packet.
3 -
Suppose, just suppose that the manufacturer sold rear fixed bed vans with 75kg nose weight. How many people would post criticism because the under bed Storage space was unusable because the van had become tail heavy?
Maybe the heavy nose weight allows for typical user loading. Ours balances well when loaded.
0 -
I think there is only Bailey taking it seriously.
My Coachman is a nightmare to get correct. I've taken to placing the heavy essentials such as power leads and the like in a low, wide create and placing it plumb over the axle.
Putting loads rearwards, like under the fixed bed created a pendulum effect. Think of the caravan as a dumb-bell instead of a ball around the axle and that's what you're creating by placing loads rearwards to balance the nose weight.
I lift the create out when pitched and push it under the van until we are ready to leave. This was the only way to get the nose weight correct.
0 -
The U2 Cadiz we had wasn't too bad. Although it didn't have any central gas locker, ( that space being taken by an interior drawer / table unit) it did have lockers either side. Although the doors were rather small. We used then for chocks, hoses and pipes for service pitches, loo liquid, hitch cover etc. There was also a larger locker under one of the fixed beds that had a plastic tray base. Heavy items such as the EHU cable and bulky things like the ramps went in there, along with mats used outside.
They rather spoiled it with later variants, removing at least one of the front lockers. If we had not switched to a MH, I don't think it would have been high on our list.
0 -
I think it’s more about putting too much weight in the caravan and not just near the axle, that has been the problem.
0 -
The weight of a couple of gas bottles shouldn't cause any suspension to collapse. It should have a safety margin many times the weight of two gas bottles. Besides, the manufacturers should be aware that overall stability suffers if there is a an excessive difference in wheel load from side to side (and I mean much over 70kg). They should therefore take steps in the design to ensure a reasonably balanced weight distribution left to right.
0
