E&P Hydraulic Levelling
I have recently paid a deposit to have the E&P system fitted to our Knaus as soon as the lockdown permits and whilst I recognise I am talking to a limited audience, I was wondering if anyone could advise whether, in their experience, it was worth paying the extra £1000 or so to have the full system fitted as opposed to the 'compact' system which just levels side to side.
I have been using Lock 'n Level both to level the van and fit the twin wheel locks for over 6 years now - and have been pleased with it. However, a recent knee injury has meant that it is extremely painful to kneel down and deploy the L 'n L and fit the wheel locks. The E&P system will permit me to do this much more easily.
I am just wondering if I go for the compact system, whether or not I will regret not having the full system fitted since it's not possible to 'extend' the system if I change my mind at a later date.
I'd be particularly interested to hear from anyone who 'just' has the compact version fitted and what their experience is.
Thanks - Richard
Comments
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Agree - what I probably missed out is that my thinking is that since fore and aft levelling is simply a matter of adjusting the jockey wheel - plus the van already has the heavy duty legs with 'bigfoot' feet which I wind down with a drill - is it worth that extra £1k+ just for that?
I am hoping that users of both the compact and full system will share their experiences.
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Sounds a lot of money just to put your jockey wheel on part-time working. there's the additional weight penalty too.
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Weight penalty isn't an issue Cy. As I said, van already has heavy duty steadies and 'bigfoot' feet which normally replace standard ones when the E&P system is fitted and account for a lot of the weight increase. The only additional weight is re the rams and control box. Plus with a payload of 360kg, it's not a real issue.
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Strangely enough, that would normally be my argument - but now Ros is saying that - I've given up trying to second guess her reaction to anything
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Once lockdown is over I will get the full system fitted. Imagine getting to site when raining and you press the button to level and still have to go around the van to level fore and aft. Let the system do it all in 2 mins and sit with a brew till rain stops. Motor movers were to make life easier so why not the levelling. Go for it.
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There are a few threads on this system, which we had fitted several years ago. If the money is not a tight squeeze, there is no choice to make.
Enjoy the full system. the only time you will have to think about the setting up, is if the pitch you choose will not allow you to drop the front of the van below level, which the unit requires to function automatically. Only happened once in 5 years, just moved the van a couple of feet and all was well.
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For me it’s the full system.
Push the button and go and do something else, like run the mains cable or fill the aquaroll.
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I have the basic system, retrofitted from new to our Elddis Crusader. I think it is great, twin axle wheel locks are a doddle, changing a wheel easy, no jack to carry and of course side to side levelling as well. We had ours fitted in Norfolk, very helpful people.
Remember, when you first arrive on site you are probably going to use it on manual first to lift the nearside to fit the wheel lock(s). Only after these are fitted can you lower it back down and let the auto (in my case side to side only) function do it's thing.
Unless I am on hard standing I always put 12" lengths of Scaffold board under each Hydraulic RAM, virtually the whole weight of the caravan can be supported on these relatively small Discs and if they sink into soft ground they can put additional load onto the corner steadies. I also put 12" scaffold boards under each corner steady.
You can see that, for me, it would never be an "arrive, push the button = level, 2 minute result so levelling with the jockey wheel is no problem. The remote control is a useful option as it beeps and gives a green light when you are level with the jockey wheel, then wind down the corner steadies.
A few points,
When the van is lifted the axle(s) trailing swing arms fall so the wheels are dangling. If you lock the wheels solid by fitting a wheel lock then when the caravan is lowered it will lurch forward on the locked side as the wheels hit the ground and can't roll. I always lift the van fully off of the ground and put the handbrake on before lowering it down again. It will still move forwards as it lands but does not lurch sideways.
My preferred "level" is with a very slight lean towards the offside to improve shower tray draining so I always finish off the levelling with a touch of manual mode fine tuning and a small 2 vial spirit level on the sideboard.
I found that an awful lot of the Hydraulic Ram travel was wasted just reaching the ground this meant that I had to use levelling blocks under the Rams on uneven sites as there was not enough travel left to get level. I had the supplier, strictly at my risk (because they hang lower under the van) re-fit mine on the next bolt hole lower than they should be, a very useful modification. Just watch out for pillow type speed bumps.
One result of fitting a levelling system that is often overlooked is the fact that the van is very steady and does not sway in the wind or as you walk about inside.
If the van is stored I leave it raised on its hydraulics to keep the load off of the tyres, I don't quite trust the hydraulics not to leak fluid past the seals and settle over time, if this happened then once again the corner steadies could be put under excessive load. To save this worry I always wind up the rear steadies briefly every month to account for any movement there might have been. This applies to long stays on site as well. I must say that it is 4 years old now and so far I have never seen any unexpected movement in the Rams.
Apologies for the long Post!
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Stephen
It may have been a long post, but it was very helpful - thank you.
Just to clarify - when you fit the wheel locks, do you lift all 4 wheels or just the nearside?
I know what you mean about the wheels settling on the suspension. I have a particular problem with the Knaus in that it has 5 spoke wheels and as a consequence, the Alko lozenges are large and a tight fit between the spokes. Not only is correct alignment critical (much more so than on our previous Bailey) when fitting them, but when it comes to removing them - because the wheels have moved very slightly, the bolts are always tight - so much so that I am concerned about damaging the threads. I suppose I ought to re-inflate the Lock 'n Level that I use at the moment before attempting to remove the locks, but I never do.
Do you, therefore, go through the process of raising the nearside again when you come to remove the locks - so as to take the pressure off the lock bolts?
It was interesting to note that you can manually adjust the level after it has done its own job. I also like to have our van very slightly nose down and nearside raised very slightly to aid shower draining.
Thank you again, for your informative post - just what I was looking for
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My system is over five years old now, so I consider it reliable. No signs of leaks. The hydraulics are well engineered.
Mine is on a single axle, so I visually line up the alko wheel lock and fit that on the floor. Then push the button.The system does allow you to reset your own level, so it you want it to learn slightly, then you can preset it to do that every time it’s deployed. I don’t find then need to do this as the shower in my caravan drains well when the caravan is set to level.
At home, I raise it on the manual option and set it high with wheels off the ground ( takes the strain off the suspension and tyres ) and a slight fall to the front to aid draining rain from the roof and reduce black streaks from the sides and back.1 -
The Rams, fitted to the axle cross member, are well inboard from the wheels so using the left hand side ram only will get the wheel clear of the ground quicker. I am happy to release the handbrake once it is lifted (900kg on the ram) so spinning the wheels to fit the locks is easy.
My Alko locks are also a snug fit in the wheels and as I mentioned because of the trailing arms there is always a forward movement as the locked wheels hit the ground, I am careful to make sure the wheel lock bolts are tight (making the assembly more robust and protecting the bolt) at this point. At the end of the stay I usually take the locks off while the caravan is still level and I have never had difficulty getting them off, Luckily my lozenges are tapered so as soon as the bolts are loose they are free from the wheel. This may not be the same for all caravans/wheel shape of course. I share your concern about how delicate the threads are on the Alko locks I wouldn't hesitate to lift the wheel if I found the bolt was tight or not turning freely.
At the risk of creating another long post there are another couple of points of interest:
When using the manual mode the rams stop moving when the caravan is level you can carry on lifting afterwards but it is useful.
There is no way of lowering incrementally! it's all down or nothing, lowering is always one ram at a time this makes the caravan rock from side to side as it goes down so be careful if you are close to any buildings/ fences, I have a 3" gap to a shed at home and this can be a nerve racking moment, if things are going wrong the power button (on the remote) stops things straight away.
I always add a little extra lift (to both sides) manually even when the auto setting has finished I do this to take more weight off of the suspension, I find this makes the van even more stable. It also gives more height for drainage into the wastemaster
If I was to criticise the system it would be that I wish it was simpler. I would be happy with 4 buttons Up & Down Left & Right plus the levelling arrows and green light. For example, it will not allow some operations until you have proved that your corner steadies are not down you have to do this my moving the jockey wheel until it sees a change in level.
I will mention the remote control option once again it means you can be where the action is (spirit level, blocks under rams, jockey wheel, power button).
As "Freedom a Whitebox" mentioned you can re-calibrate the level so that the auto mode puts it to the level you want for your shower etc. I haven't bothered because as I mentioned I always add to the lift manually anyway.
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I have often wondered what the outcome would be to do this, my thought was to lift the van and remove the wheels for extra security when at home but perhaps over winter.
Have you done this at all? What length of time have you had the van lifted for?
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However, a recent knee injury has meant that it is extremely painful to kneel down and deploy the L 'n L and fit the wheel locks.
richardandros, Apologies for being stupid but I don't understand - how will this system make fitting the wheel locks any easier?
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Hi Mickey
On a single axle van it is not much different if you can align the pockets of the alloy wheels to allow easy fitting of the Alko type locks.. However with a twin axle there is a big advantage as the van can be listed on the lock side of van and once stable with the jockey wheel down, the the handbrake can be released to allow the raised wheels to spin independently to allow much easier alignment of the Alko locks.
If your back still bends but not your knees, this can be done from a standing position.
I have not used the L+L system, but I assume you would need to kneel down to place the system in the correct position.
Just a thought the second lock or even both locks for the twin axle could be the nemesis which requires no alignment. I use one on the offside wheel to give a visible deterrent especially when an awning is fitted.
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I have had my motorhome on the jacks for the past two months with no ill effects. One of the marketing points is that when on the jacks it makes it harder to steal. When I took mine in for a check/servicing a couple of years ago I was advise to spary them now and again with silcon grease when extend. I can lift mine clear of the ground at the front but the back is a bit heavier and although I can reduce the weight on the wheels, I wouldn't like to risk too high a lift.
I recently had the tyres changed and I had to use my levelling jacks to lift the motorhome up sufficiently to allow the garage to get their jacks under the axle!
peedee
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Bluemalaga is correct in what he says. I ripped a ligament in my knee about 4 months ago and although I can now walk almost normally, it is still - even after this time, very painful to kneel down. I think it's something I'm going to have to live with - along with a few other creaking joints!
To deploy the L 'n L, there's no other way to do it other than by kneeling down and bringing the van back with the motor mover to ensure it is both correctly positioned on the air bag and that the wheel lock lines up. Fit one wheel lock, inflate half the bag to lift the front wheel and fit that lock - then level the van. It means I'm on my knees for quite a few minutes.
Using the E&P, I will be able to lift the nearside of the van, sit on the caravan step, spin the wheels and fit both locks - same when removing them. Well, that's my thinking, anyway.
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A different security device might be a cheaper option
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Plus, finding the cheapest solution isn’t my primary consideration - but finding the best, is.
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You may already know but I thought I’d mention there is a member offer of
Free footplate covers worth £150 on all new installations of E&P Hydraulic Levelling systems.
I don’t know what that is but you may find the offer useful !
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Haven't a clue what they are, either - but have asked E&P to enlighten me! Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
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Very true CY but non of them can automatically level the vehicle/caravan or jack it up.
R&R
Google E+P footpads, and you will see they appear to be bolt on pads which apparently make the pads bigger.
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Google E+P footpads, and you will see they appear to be bolt on pads which apparently make the pads bigger.
I use four pieces of wood about 18 iinches long and 1 inch thick placed under the jacks to spred the load when necessary. They are mostly used on grass pitches.
peedee
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Granted that would be the first choice, but as the Poster wants to avoid kneeling and as they are presently free, they would appear to be a benefit.
My previous post was incorrect regards google. It should have been E&P Footplate Cover. The Blurb is as follows for info.
Perhaps the Club could arrange a discount for members who have already had a levelling system fitted to purchase the covers, as they are suitable for all systems it is claimed below.
Special for E&P Hydraulics Caravan Levelsystem
Increase the surface of your Caravan footplate cylinders by more than 60%
Highly recommended for heavier and tandem axle caravans.
This set consists of two stainless steel foot plates of 230 mm instead of the standard 180 mm plates and 2 foot plate covers that once again increase the surface area to 270 mm in diameter. These come with mounting material.
Note that if you change it yourself, you must use Loctite to secure the bolts. Loctite is not included, so this change can be easily done by your dealer. You can of course also contact us for a dealer in the area.The Footplatecover made of fiberglass plastic can be applied to the stainless steel or steel galvanized foot plates of the hydraulic level system for motorhomes and caravans.
The Footplatecover has been developed for all brands of level systems on the European market.
The Footplatecover serves as a surface enlarger, for more stability and protection against damage.
Special about this plate is that it is permanently attached but can also be removed if desired.Permanent.
Quickly assembled and no longer bent to place shelves under your cylinders if you want to use your level system.
The Footplatecovers remain mounted to your cylinder plates the entire holiday.More stability on all surfaces.
Mud, grass, gravel, concrete, sand, pebbles, more comfort due to a larger surface. More stability during storms and gusts.
Thanks to the studded pattern, you will not slip away from snow and sleet.
Due to extremely hot temperatures you will not sink through the asphalt.
The feetpad cover is UV resistant.Easy assembly.
Installation is easy with the supplied tools and description.
You attach the permanent Footplatecover with six bolts and nuts.Crash protection.
The Footplatecover protects your precious cylinder against crushed stone but also on rough terrain.
Permanent Footplatecover can take a beating.Light weight.
You leave the heavier wooden planks at home and screw the much lighter plastic feetpad covers onto your cylinders.
Another advantage is that you don't have to store those dirty wooden boards in your camper.
Make it easy for yourself, never kneel down again, relax on holiday.Permanent FootplateCover is patented by Mees outdoor.
produced in the Netherlands and is of high quality and extensively tested under all circumstances.0 -
Not really.
The original 180mm dia stainless plate is replaced by a 230mm stainless plate then covered with a 270mm fibreglass cover.
Suggest you google E&P footplate cover for a pic
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Thanks for the info BM. I've emailed SAP in Doncaster who are doing our installation (eventually) to see if they are participating in this deal. It all seems a bit hit and miss to me with the CAMC offer saying, essentially, that participation is at the discretion of the dealer.
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