Electric and hybrid Towing Vehicles.
Like very many of us, I am concerned about the future of Diesel; I own a Honda 2.2l Diesel C-RV.
I have read a lot of posts under 'Electric Cars'. Much of the discussion is not helpful.
I have just started doing a bit of research on the subject which is rather interesting.
The first, and major point is that most electric models are not homologated for towing: in other words, should you use one of those vehicles for towing you may find that your insurance is invalidated, and, should you be be involved in a crash or stopped by the Police, you could be in deep legal trouble.
The other main point missed in the other discussions is that given current technology, a hybrid vehicle is arguably the best choice. Reason? Towing range on pure electric power would be severely limited, with the consequence of not finding a charging point before running out of power - that could be a little frustrating!
Today, a petrol/electric hybrid that can be charged at home or at any charging point must surely be the sensible answer. The combined power of petrol and battery can provide massive torque, assuming that the right vehicle is chosen to tow your caravan. Torque is what matters for getting away from a standing start; not power.
My little bit of research so far shows only a handful of vehicles that are homologated for towing: Tesla at the most expensive end; Mercedes next; the Mitsubishi PHEV 4x4 at a more affordable price.
I have no vested interest in any manufacturer, however, if I were to buy a new vehicle now, I would possibly go for the Mitsubishi. Other makes may offer something similar - more research is needed.
I think it would be very useful to us all if the club were to conduct a full research programme, in order to provide an informed view of the technologies and alternatives. In fact, I have asked the club if a piece could be written to make it clear what the technology and implications are about.
I hope that this will start a sensible and useful discussion.
Comments
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I towed an 1800kg caravan with Lexus RX400h hybrid for over 6 years. Don't get me wrong, it was a lovely car, but the benefits of a hybrid powertrain were only apparent when solo, and even more so with lots of stop/start driving where it proved to be phenomenally economical. However, when towing it used as much petrol as a non-hybrid.
Realistically, towing with an all-electric Tesla only makes sense for relatively short journeys even though reports have shown that it is possible to tow a caravan all the way down to Italy with one, but you do need good nerves when checking the battery charge en route. On the positive side, the Tesla is fitted with a towbar ex-factory as standard.
For the time being I have gone back to a diesel, mainly because I do a fair annual mileage now that I have only one car at my disposal instead of two, and that makes a petrol less attractive.
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I will be changing my car in the next few months. I have done some research on petrol hybrids, which would be my first chose, but cant fine one that meets my requirements.
I understand the reasons for wanting a diesel as a towcar, but I think the costs of owning and running a diesel will only increase over the coming years. Manchester, close to where I live, is just about to bring in a charge for the most polluting commercial diesels. This is the thin end of the wedge. It won’t be long before this is extended to privately owned vehicles, and I’m sure other cities, both in the UK and abroad will follow suit.
Due to this, and the fact I plan to own my next vehicle for quite a while, and my annual mileage will drop soon I will probably opt for a petrol engine.
Mercedes have just released a new GLE which is available with a “soft Hybrid” 3l petrol engine giving more than enough power and torque, 270+22 hp and 500+250 Nm. But this comes at a not insubstantial cost, OTR price of 62k before options.
I have also seen a couple of decent 2l petrol models, but these only just meet my power and torque requirements
I’m sure other manufactures will follow suit with descent petrol derivatives, but not in the time scale I will be changing my car. A lot seem to have pulled the bigger petrol versions at the moment; maybe to do with emissions and tax, I’m not sure.
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When I was at the Tow Bar shop yesterday he had the details of 2 Mercedes cars on the counter. Almost identical spec but one was a "green" version and fell under the category of NOT for towing - so as above insurance, warranties etc would be null and void if a tow bar was fitted. I think I will stick to diesel for the rest of my towing career unless something new appears.
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Just looked at the new Toyota2.5 petrol Rav4 hybrid braked towing 1600kg but the price £33.000 for the 4 wheel drive and £31.000 for the 2 wheel drive. A lot of money for a hybrid. Any body else looked at one.
I will stick with my LC4 Landcruiser.
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If you want research into EV’s and the like the ‘club’ is the last place i would ask.... with the best will in the world they do not have the resources or expertise to carry out the level of research required. try Diesel Car magazine which also has a section for EV/alternative fuel cars. However in the real world where most car buyers buy used there are very few hybrids available and as Lutz points out in that same real world hybrid economy isnt actually that great. The Lexus is one of very few options. If buying new i fail to understand why a new latest version of EU 6 compliant diesel is not acceptable given that petrol turbo engines are proving to be almost as bad as diesel for nox, particulates etc.... As for the practicalities of using a pure EV for any distance a recent Autocar feature driving an EV to Edinburgh brought home the shortcomings.... and that was without a caravan in tow.... i am not against EV’s or hybrids but they are being marketed by politicians as a panacea with no understanding of how people actually live and drive.
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For me they would be a waste of time. Our 14 year old tow-car is mainly just that in as such as it is used for holidays with the caravan for 17 or 18 weeks of the year. When home it probably does 80 miles a month which is on motorway and dual carriageway generally. 70 mile of that would be 35 miles each way to see grandkids with no option to conveniently charge any hybrid.
As OH does not wish to drive the tow car we have a 19 year old 1,000cc Yaris and when replaced will probably be with a 3 year old car of similar size. There would be no saving with electric sufficient to offset either the additional purchase cost or installation of a charger as it only covers 1,500 miles a year as neither of us now work.
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marketed by politicians as a panacea with no understanding of how people actually live and drive.
And probably no understanding of where and how the pollution of making the electricity happens, not to mention how the materials to construct batteries are obtained. All they care is that it is not in THEIR constituency.
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Some of the latest euro 6 diesel are considerably cleaner and putting a lot of so called clean petrol cars to shame, so I personally don't think the diesel is dead and buried just yet, it some of the older dirty diesels that need taking off the road.
EV technology is now progressing so fast within a year or two we are going to see 500 mile ranges, the knock on effect it could make PHEV obsolete and not cost effective (Mitsubishi PHEV was due to upgraded with a 70 mile battery range, but I believe this has been dropped)
The Chinese have made great step using carbon batteries which charge up extremely quickly (as quick as refuelling a conventional vehicle)advancements in regenerative braking using carbon capacitors. Within the very near future we will have affordable EV capable of towing caravans.
At present I have a 2017 Kuga 2.0 diesel powershift, in about 12 months I will probably change over to a new 2.4 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, about 95% of my mileage is less than 25 miles, my energy supplier off peak overnight EV tariff 5 pence kWh,, which works out at 50 pence for 25 miles. The other 5% towing the caravan we can live with.
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There's a lot of discussions on other forums about how environmentally friendly, or not, electric cars really are.
For me diesel pollutes low level, petrol at high level in the atmosphere, electric cars are made of components that are extracted from area that ruin the environment, then the end of life disposal of poisonous materials into landfill.
It's all a con in my opinion.
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I was looking online as you do at a Mercedes e300de which is their diesel hybrid. There was a test on line of a Dutch car magazine on a towing test with this car but can not find it at the moment
This review is from the Green Car forum
Shame the Government is against hybrids as that appears to be the way to go, especially for people with caravans as the 100% electric option will mean we go back 40 years to vans weighting under 1000kg - think they had foot operated water pumps, although I could be exaggerating
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Our first caravan not only had a foot operated water pump (cold only) it also only had gas lights,and a open flame gas heater,no grill but gas oven and hotplate, glass windows and the double? bed was, during the day hinged against the rear wall,and a thunder bucket toilet,that was kept under the sink ,EHU ,if found, was 10amp max, real luxury
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Can`t see any point in a hybrid whatsoever (unless used for a short commute everyday) then a small electric car is most practical. When you read makers forums most posters talk about how well they accelerate hardly ever a reference to saving the planet!
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sorry.
