Site Directory 2021/22 and OS references
When the current SD came out there was quite a furore over the lack of O.S.Grid References in the CL section. The club gave the lack of space as a reason stating that Sat Nav references were more pertinent in this day and age.
Well why can't we have both?
If you troll through the CL sections on any given page most of the CLs will make reference to having Coarse and/or Game Fishing within 5 miles. If you count the spacing that this information takes up it comes to 48 character spaces. Can someone tell me what is wrong with using the symbols that are used for CAMC sites and putting them with the other symbols used to describe the CL? I know that the site symbol is used to inform about fishing within 5 miles and the CL is used for site but the vast majority of CLs do not have fishing directly on their site. So if the CL wishes to inform you they have fishing on site then they can tell you, maybe by introducing, say, a tick next to the symbol.
This would free up an awful lot of space and we could have the OS references back and the fishing folk would still be kept informed.
As an aside I have never seen anyone in all of my caravanning years go off fishing, cleaning fishing tackle or talk to me about fishing whilst on a CL (except on 2 CLs which happened to have fishing lakes). So, without denigrating fishing in any way, why does fishing get special treatment over say walking or cycling or birdwatching etc.? Why the need to mention it? Us a symbol like you do for beaches or nature etc.etc.
Anyway, hopefully someone who is responsible for producing the S.D. might just have a think about it and gauge opinion.
Note to Mods - I have put this topic in the C.L. section rather than Club Products as I think more members who are interested in O.S. references for CLs will find it here.
Comments
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Sounds ok to me. Much prefer to have grid references.👍
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And the same here. Please bring back the OS grid references.
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GPS co-ordinates for me although, if push comes to shove, I can extract them from GoogleEarth if I can identify the CL.
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Lots of CLs say "Don't use satnav". Finding the exact location using grid references and the relevant OS map is an almost foolproof way especially if the CL owner suggests a route. I use GPS coordinates whilst still at home using Google Earth (although sometimes the coordinates are wrong) and then cross reference to the OS map.
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I suppose the main point of them is for folk who still use paper maps. Frankly I think the CC's excuse of lack of space ridiculous. More a case of couldn't be bothered to update for new CL's.
I still have my paper maps and do use them occasionally, but also have the digital variety (OS) for all of GB. These take Lat / Long or OS grid references.
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I thought when this was last mentioned when it was realised that they were missing from the previous site directory that the Club said they will monitor requests for grid references to be re-included in the next edition. We have not yet heard how many have approached the Club but perhaps this thread will act as a reminder?
Personally I have no use for them as I think there as easier ways to find where I am going. Having said that I don't use that many CL's and it is unlikely I would be using any that were in the middle of nowhere so to speak. So I am neutral on whether they should be included or not. I suppose there is an element of extra work when they are included so I imagine the Club want to be sure they are useful to a wide range of the membership rather than just a small number?
David
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With the current closure rate of CL's (and thus their subsequent omission from SD) I would have thought there'd be plenty of room to write whatever you liked in the SD, providing of course, the publication is similar in size to the previous edition?
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We use quite remote CLs, and have found the Grid references excellent for pinpointing locations of such CLs. Sometimes, simple really is good!
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We have found that on occasion, the Grid reference is correct, but the CL location shown on the Club map isn’t! 🤣
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Aye, there's a few of those!!
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Bring back the OS Grid Refs!!!!
The Club sent me their list of the all the Club sites and CL grid refs, the information is there for the asking, but it makes much more sense if they put their hands up and admit it was a bad move to omit them from the directory.
That won't happen unless enough members make their feelings known.
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Well, at the risk of being controversial, I would suggest a degree of “dumbing down”. In this age of high tech equipment, lots of folks will use other methods..........until they can’t get a connection, or realise the Sat Nav isn’t compensating for a wide or long vehicle! 😂 Basic skills are so underrated nowadays.......
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But it is so much easier to use technology. It offers choice on how to access information and it can supply much more detail than leafing through a handbook. Anyone want to buy an almost new handbook ? Excellent condition perhaps used once only!
peedee
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I also prefer to use the technology and our handbook is equally pristine. Much of the tech can even be used offline. However, this is a Club and surely should be supplying the information in a format to suit all members. Particularly when it is not that difficult to do. I don't ever remember being asked in any of the surveys anything about navigation, so how have they decided that OS coordinates are no longer needed in the directory.
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How do CL owners provide them? If it is Latitude and Longtitude it will mean someone has to convert them and check they are correct before going to print. That's time and money. It could equally apply the other way around so without knowing how they are provided, difficult to comment further but I strongly suspect in this day and age it is Lat and long which is also more accurate than the judgement of a three figure grid ref.
In any case surely directions matter more than any position reference and the Club does provided a map with sites and CL positions marked. I think the Club has to start drawing a line somewhere if it is to cut costs and duplication of information seems to be an obvious choice to cut.
peedee
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Why remove something that is valuable to many members. If to save space look at other information that isn't of value to many members. How many of us need to know that there is fishing withing 5 miles ? Not many I would suggest.
Whilst some members will never use OS grid references I suspect that there are very many that do, certainly more than go fishing. It should be no great problem to reinstate them in the directory as the club already have them - or should still have them.
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I agree directions matter and some are truly terrible making a positional reference very important. The actual amount of time needed to convert either way is minimal. What would take time is checking if they are correct ( no idea if they do) and that would take as much time however they were provided.
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But that’s my point PD. The Club does provide a map with the supposed locations on it, but those of us who use CLs as our first choice, know that the dot on the map, the directions given and the actual grid referenced location can differ!
I don’t knock technology, and do in fact use it. But gadgets cost, and some CLs don’t offer a good signal. So a mobile is as useful as a chocolate fireguard in those circumstance. We only have a Sat Nav because our posh Jeep came with one. They are still useful. And if it’s right, the Grid reference will be there as long as the CL is, so it’s once only exercise.
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However they are provided they are unlikely to be error free. I have already noticed an error in the latest POIs. The point of my posts is to point out not all of us need an out dated system of OS grid references.
JohnM, a lot of supposition in your post. Fishing happens to be the most popular sport in the UK.
peedee
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Apparently more people go fishing than watch football. Given the all-pervasive coverage on TV and in the papers, you would never guess. Why is the media so obsessed with football?
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Erm..............money?
There might well be more people actually go fishing, but I doubt there are more who watch it. Twice I agreed to get involved in my youth. Once on land (warm and sunny, I got a decent tan, but no fish were harmed that day😂) and then on an ill fated sea fishing trip.............(oh deary me............🤢🤢🤮) It was a relationship that didn’t last.
I like watching football live. It’s as close as being a Roman going to the Coliseum as you can get! Slightly less blood of course, but very funny watching multi millionaire’s running around in snow and rain while the masses bay at them to run faster.😁
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The whole problem stems from the fact that the world we live on is, more or less, round yet most people think about places locally on it as if it were flat. Latitude and Longitude is a simple way to reference a point on a sphere but the "lines" of Longitude are all curves that meet at the poles and are widely seperated at the equator. Think Terrys Chocolate Orange.
To make a map that appears on a flat surface requires some form of "projection" and there have been hundreds devised over the years. All of them have to introduce a level of distortion. The National Grid as produced by the Ordnance Survey has grid lines that are parallel on the map and a consistent one kilometer apart. So the distance on the ground between two adjacent lines running north to south is the same at Land's End as it is at John o'Groats.
This makes for easy and consistent estimation of distance on the map. Try doing that with lines of latitude and longitude and you need to involve considerable calculations because they taper together the further north they are. Electronic devices will work it out if you specify points but are no use for looking at a general view.
The limitation of this far superior NGR system is that it can only work over a limited area, such as Great Britain. Ireland has a different grid but on the same principle. So for international use there would need to be many seperate grid systems, so Latitude and Longitude get the widespread use. Perhaps the next name change will be to The Worldwide Caravan Club?
It is interesting to note though that the Club's bi-annual map is still using a location grid based very closely indeed on the National Grid of the Ordnance Survey. Should one know a Grid Reference one can actually plot it directly onto that map with no electronics required.
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By the same token not all of us need or in fact use the new fangled system either.
As for keeping fishing folk happy then refer to my suggestion in the OP. It would save space and keep both factions happy.
It might be the most popular "sport" in the UK, participation wise, but once again I have yet to come across anyone who I have seen with fishing tackle on a CL, save for a couple of fishing lake sites. Cleaning walking boots yes, getting bikes out and going off cycling yes, even someone setting up a telescope for star gazing but fishing never.
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I really miss the NGRs and hope they will be replaced. When I plan a holiday I like to buy the local OS map and then use the NGR's to pick a site with local footpaths etc. I usually rely on the site instructions when navigating to the site because they tend to avoid difficult stretches of road. My vote is, please bring the NGRs back
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The NGRs are available on the web site.
. . . where they are referred to as "OS field ref". This says a lot about the knowlege of the people who are putting the information on the web-site and in the handbook, and may be at the bottom of the omission of NGRs from print.
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