Dogs and Touring

Excellent, we seem to be back on topic.

I know some will disagree, but I contend that there is, from time-to-time a situation with dogs on Club sites which impacts on the enjoyment of others. It can take many forms but noise and poo are the main contenders, both problems very manageable with responsible ownership. I also accept that dog owners are entitled to enjoy their dogs and touring with them is part of that enjoyment. However, the number of dogs brought onto sites by some owners is becoming ridiculous. There was a time when one or two dogs was the norm, now four or five isn’t unusual. The volume of dogs on some large sites could probably exceed 100 at times? Thereafter it’s just a question of probability, the more dogs, the greater the likelihood of irresponsible owners and subsequent problems. 

I would like to see some Club policy debate about limiting the number of dogs. I don’t feel strongly about charging, but it’s a potential revenue stream. Members could simply be asked to declare the number of dogs when booking and limits enforced. It already happens on some UK and continental sites.

Ok, that’s the debate done with then. Problem what problem? It’s all part of some devious agenda!

OK, SB, you wanted a rational debate and I thought Moulesy was contributing so let’s try to continue, shall we?

I don’t believe charging for dogs would alleviate the problems some people encounter as I think it will encourage the irresponsible to take a stance along the lines of 'I’m paying so he can poo where he likes'.

As for setting a limit on numbers, what would you suggest as a maximum and why? Should that number also take account of the size of the dogs and the number of adults bringing them to the site? Would you set a limit but allow an assistance dog in addition to that limit? I’m interested to hear your reasoning for wanting such a limit and your thought processes for arriving at your chosen maximum.

At all times it is never the problem of the Dog/Dogs only the owners. A Dog is only as good as it’s owners who set the boundarys. No person other than a complete & utter professional can control a large number of Dogs so I agree that there is a finite number of Dogs that can be responsibly controlled by a person👍🏻.

I don’t have a fixed position on dog numbers, each site would need to be different depending on overall size and facilities. Examples of what works elsewhere might be helpful. Assistance dogs are obviously a special case, but in my experience they are never the source of nuisance problems. I could outline the stereotypical dog owner that I generally avoid pitching near, but that would probably be construed here as offensive.

I’ve already stated my reasons for controlling numbers. Restrictions reduce the probability of nuisance, it’s as simple as that. It wouldn’t stop dog nuisance completely, but hey ho, that’s life. 

Moulsey - I really don’t understand the point of your questions, so I won’t be responding with a documented history of my camping activity in 2019.

I don’t think a variable max number of dogs per unit would be feasible, SB. It would be hideously complicated for members to plan a touring holiday if certain sites were barred to them but others available due to a varying dog limit. It could be said to take away the choice of sites from some members and could even result in loss of membership and income.

No, I think any imposed maximum has to be constant across the site network but I’m interested to know what you consider a sensible number - 3, 4, more? Then there’s the size question. Are 2 GSDs too much but 4 corgis OK? I like dogs but you’re clearly not a fan so I find a differing viewpoint of interest especially if tolerance is demonstrated by all.

I think the starting point is the principle of the approach, rather than specifics. Is the Club thinking about it, does anybody care? It’s certainly an emotive subject when it comes up on this forum, so I think some members do.  I’m sure where this sort of thing is implemented successfully there is plenty of good practice available concerning numbers etc.

BTW you’re wrong to say I’m not a dog fan. I grew up with dogs and generally like them. The problem for me is the growing number of irresponsible dog owners.

Interested in how you would approach changing Club Site visits for dog owners SB, do you have anything specific in mind? Suggestions for Club to consider?

No, I think enforcement is tackling the situation from the wrong end of the problem and expecting wardens to deal deal with the problem is for the birds. Put simply, the fewer dogs, the fewer irresponsible owners, the fewer nuisance problems. 

A recent example, Steamer Quay, Totnes. Nice site, I like it a lot, but not this year.

Stayed in 2018, few dogs on site, absolutely no problem.

Stayed in 2019, surrounded by dogs in every neighbouring unit. Campervan owners left dog alone in small panel van to go out for dinner with visiting friends. Dog barked & howled intermittently for entire evening.

Caravanners next door had visitors for bbq with small children who worked their poodle into a frenzy - yapped most of the afternoon/evening. Half-hearted attempts at controlling dog failed miserably.

Campervan opposite, elderly couple with small dog and young grandkids. Dog barked every time kids went past (continually) on bikes/scooters. No attempts at curtailing barking.

I’m sorry Bill, but I think your logic is flawed. If you set rules and guidance (for example, dogs on leads at all times, dogs not allowed to bark endlessly, two perfectly reasonable requests for the good of everyone on site) then policing those rules, and making sure those who transgress are penalised, is the best way forward. All the examples you give are owners with one dog, failing to ensure that the said dog is well behaved/supervised. I might on the other hand be an owner with three dogs, who will not let my dogs upset any other visitors. Am I welcome on a Club Site or not? If not, then I will feel unfairly discriminated against, as I and my dogs have not broken any Club rules, nor caused any upset to another visitor. It’s the behaviour that’s the problem, not the numbers? 

edit, we cross posted TW, but I think we are on same wavelength🙂

You are controlling numbers, not behaviour though. One badly supervised dog will still be a problem, half a dozen well supervised dogs shouldn’t be a problem? 

Don’t disagree, as I’ve said, I’m talking about probability. It’s a blunt instrument but I’ve resisted talking specific numbers because I recognise it’s more complicated than that.

I recognise that there are some poor dog owners out there, and some of them no doubt use Club Sites, but in three decades of using Sites, it’s just not something I have come across to be honest.  We have just got back from using our twelfth Club Site of this year, and haven’t seen or heard any dog related issue that I can recall, and some of the Sites have been very busy. 

Sorry Bill, but I do think you are advocating some sort of limit on the number of dogs you think the Club should allow on an individual pitch, certainly your last paragraph above would indicate such?

I take it that the "problems?"with dog owners you had on your last visit as posted was brought to the attention of the owners and /or the site staff? ,posts complaining about uncontrolled dogs seem to always after the event and not advised to site staff who could have done something at the time ,and possibly made the stay by the complainant less "stressfull"