Nosey Lesson
We have been caravan club members for 15 years during which time we have owned 2 Baileys, 1 Compass, 2 Elddis and now our first Swift (Conqueror 580). Over the years we have towed with Vauxhall Vectra v6, Shogun, Landcruiser and Volvo XC70. I have always made sure I had a tow car with plenty of BHP, Torque and kerb weight, also very careful with loading the caravan before going on the road (tyres, wheel nut torque, lights, etc). I considered myself a caravaner who understood the risks to ourselves and other road users associated with towing and planned accordingly, with no problems encountered until our recent change of both caravan and car.
We changed our caravan to the 2016 Swift 580 and at the same time changed our tow car to a 2016 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 Quattro with a dealer fitted new tow bar thinking it would tow the Swift with consummate ease, given the cars towing capacity is 2100kgs. We loaded the caravan, did usual checks and headed south from Aberdeen to Carlisle. On the way we had 3 occasions where the caravan swayed much more than normal as I passed an HGV and on one occasion had both my wife and I concerned. I pulled over and checked everything in case the loading inside had shifted but all was ok. We continued our journey south reducing road speed which stopped any further sway.
Once at our destination I started checking further and even called the Caravan & Motorhome Club technical support team where I was advised there should be no problem with the match however two factors (outside of loading) which may cause the sway are tyre pressure and nose weight. This caused me to check tow bar weights and found after contacting Audi it was only 75kgs for that car. Needless to say I purchased a calibrated nose weight gauge and discovered the Swift was around 85kgs with only a lightweight gas bottle in the front locker.
We are now about to change our tow car having had it only 4 months and the big lesson I learned was to know the maximum load the tow car can take on the tow ball, something I’ve never thought about in 15 years towing.
Interestingly, I called the Swift Group to ask the ex-works nose weight of an empty 2016 Conqueror 580 and was advised they are not obliged to provide the public with that information. Come on Swift Group, surely to comply with design specifications you have a nose weight threshold your completed ‘ex-works’ empty caravans must adhere to?
Comments
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Not too sure the empty nose weight is of any relevance as it’s the loaded nose weight that matters. Nose weight can easily be adjusted by the way the caravan is loaded.
Although a nose weight of 75kg is a little light its still 75% of the maximum the hitch can take.
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Nose weight can easily be adjusted by the way the caravan is loaded.
May or may not be easy to adjust but if ex works is 120kg as some Bailey models (no doubt others) were said to be I would find it more than a tad inconvenient and a time wasting faff redistributing load every time that I moved off.
I have been fortunate in being able to simply store stuff where I wanted them to be during usage (except aquaroll and wastemaster) and the resultant nose weights have been fine without need to adjust.
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So 15 years towing and every caravan/car combo you had could have been overloaded on the hitch as you never checked any of them. Makes you think how many older caravanners are still doing the same, just hitch up and go.
I don't mean age I mean 20/30 years of towing.1 -
I wouldn't have thought that 85kg instead of 75kg would have made that much difference. My Vauxhalls only had a nose weight max of 75kg too & I towed our Lunar Delta (which looks to be a similar weight to your Swift) with ease & no drama at the max 60mph ...
and I used the same precision & method as EasyT to gauge the 'van's nose weight.
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I fully agree. If such a comparatively small change in noseweight results in such a marked difference in the way the outfit handles there must be something else wrong somewhere, too. On one occasion I towed my 1800kg single axle behind the car with probably less than 50kg noseweight and although I did feel the difference, it was nothing to get too concerned about. I just had to be that bit more careful, that's all. Even with my current car I am limited to 80kg noseweight and it tows like a dream.
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I know this may well have been checked so if so please ignore me but last year while towing home from the Lake District we got a few bad sways on the motorway it was a clear day no wind ect and the van was loaded as it always was (never had any issues before) our car is a Volvo V70 well matched to our van and previous to this it had towed the van 1000s of miles with no issues even in very windy conditions. The car went in for its MOT the following week and it was found that the front tyres were very worn close to the limit. I got 2 new Yokohama tyres for the front and 2 weeks later we towed the van on a 400 mile round trip and the difference was amazing the van was stable no swaying and the car felt much more planted and in control. I now keep a very close eye not only on the tyre pressure but also the tread.
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On some heavily used roads that are in need of resurfacing can have "tram lines" caused by HGV wear can give the affect of swaying, as the van wheels tend to roll into the hollows which are wider than the width of the van wheels,and can be accentuated when being passed by other vehicles
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On some heavily used roads that are in need of resurfacing can have "tram lines" caused by HGV wear can give the affect of swaying, as the van wheels tend to roll into the hollows which are wider than the width of the van wheels
I have experienced that on occasion
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I recall reading a suggestion that Bailey deliberately make caravans with a high ex-factory nose weight in the expectation that users will load them up with lots of stuff behind the axle(s).
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Before going to the expense of changing the car i would try changing the tyres to a quality brand with stiff sidewalls. Also play around with the tyre pressures front AND rear. I cannot brleive 10kg on nose weight could cause such a big problem. Might be worth getting the rear suspension checked out too. My older generation A6 estate with fwd towed a Moonstone at 1625kg mtplm like a dream.
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For 10yrs, until 2018, I towed a 7.25m single axle caravan (95% match) with my Mk3 Mondeo, that had a 75kg hitch limit. No issues, and did 20,000 miles towing during that time - including Spain many times.
Personnally I would be actively exploring various loading options (for both car and caravan), before trading in what should be a great towcar, to loose a shed load of money
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Thank you all very much for your varied responses. I do appreciate an ex-works empty caravan nose weight is simply a guide however, if the guide weight is already over the car manufacturer design specifications for towing then it would be a no brainier (for myself) with selection of the towing vehicle.
I wouldn’t have thought 5 or 10 kg on the tow ball would make a big difference but on this occasion with this set up it certainly did and perhaps there were other contributing factors on the day.
Perhaps I’ve been ignorant and lucky over the past 15 years but refreshed awareness has pushed me to take the safe route and have ensured our revised vehicle is more than capable of towing our van.
Thank you again and safe journeys to all.
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Sorry if i missed something ET but your post quoted MM not me.
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Indeed luck has played a big part over the years and it’s not a strategy I’m proud of nor would I condone. I used to only look at towing capacity of the vehicle and caravan MTPLM with no problems at all. I also wonder like Lornalou1 how many other seasoned caravaners there are out there not knowing they are exceeding car manufacturers design criteria?
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When I started towing nearly 40 years ago it was, for me, a question of running tyres at setting for full passenger load, hefting the caravan weight at the hitch to check it felt OK and looking at suspension travel. I used to have one other check which was to wiggle the steering wheel before leaving estate roads, to cause the caravan to sway slightly and check that it came straight back in line. I only started checking actual noseweights - rather than by feel - around 15 years ago with heavier caravans and weaker back
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Personally I wouldn't have thought a 10 kilo difference would have made such a dramatic handling issue.
We all load our caravans pretty much the same every trip , so that in itself is a good thing I check the nose weight occasionally but seeing how the caravan is loaded similarly every trip it shouldn't vary a deal.
Changes in the contents of the front locker will effect nose weight & stability yes , but my main concern is the correct tyre pressure on both car & loaded caravan.
The recommended caravan tyre pressures are a must & should be adhered too , but having a change in car tyre types in my opinion needs the rear car pressures adjusting for best stability & ride comfort.
The tow car tyre pressures are vitally important , especially the rear.
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The recommended caravan tyre pressures are a must & should be adhered too , but having a change in car tyre types in my opinion needs the rear car pressures adjusting for best stability & ride comfort.
probably agree, however, a mobile svc mechanic i used many years ago always said to reduce caravan tyre pressures by 10 psi from handbook spec, said this would reduce vibration/bounce.
My Sorento says 33 psi whatever the conditions and that is what i use.
As i have said before, not technical, but i always thought the max nose weight of the caravan was that specified by for e.g. the Alko chasis specification?, i appreciate you can lower or raise this by how you load the caravan. Always used reasonably big tow cars and on the Coachmans they always came with ATC fitted as standard, so never had much problem with the "tail wagging the dog"
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I would think 10kgs over the car manufacturers design criteria would absolutely have an impact on stability otherwise why have engineering, design and safety specifications?
I am extremely careful with tyre pressures, tread depth and types of tyres on both towing vehicle and caravan.
The primary lesson from this which I simply wanted to share with others was my lack of awareness of the maximum load permitted on the tow ball and assumption that a 3.0L, 4WD would be more than capable given its towing capacity.....never too old to learn I guess.
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Nose weight limits have absolutely nothing to do with engine size and drive train - it has everything to do with the structural integrity of the cars platform, or chassis to most people. If 10kg weight difference over the rear of a car had such an impact on the handling then how do you load up the boot? Do you weigh your rear seat passengers before every journey? Some car and caravan combos just do not work, others do. Maybe you are unlucky but my guess is the problem lies somewhere other than the low nose weight.
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You always use the lowest weight limit of your car/van combo. My Jeep has a max tow ball weight of 147kg but the van has a 100kg limit so the 100 is what I have to use, if the van had a 200kg limit I would have to stick to the 147 limit of the jeep. It's not rocket science is it.
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Personally I wouldn't have thought a 10 kilo difference would have made such a dramatic handling issue.
I suppose that depends on the starting point. Previous caravan when unloaded was just under 65kg on the nose. It felt a little skittish when towed like that and before towing 'empty' to Alde - a 3 hour drive I added weight to the front to take it to 80kg. It might well have been 'OK' at 75kg? Definitely better at 80kg than at 65kg though,
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