Van nearly overweight
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No,All the dealer and Coachman state first year only and to the first owner.Well I had it since new.
Yes regularly serviced,this van was weighed on its 3rd service.
Not sure, the allowed increase pay load still keeps in under the rating (1550kg) of the axle.
I may try the NCC but people that have tried in the past have not had much success.
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I totally agree with the idea that most caravans these days have a poor user payload.
Since we had our axle replaced by Bailey (as a measure of goodwill!!), I have been more conscious of what we put in the caravan. We carry so much stuff in the car these days: the aquaroll, wastemaster, two comfy awning chairs, roll up awning table, awning, electric lead and reel, groundsheet, gas bottle, rotary washing line, awning pegs, lump hammer, waste pipe, hose for serviced pitch hook-up, cadac, waste bin, bucket + other items too. We've got to a situation where we will try and use Serviced pitches wherever possible, so that we don't have to take so much stuff. We rarely take an awning with us, and have purchased some collapsible items to save on room.
When we are on Serviced pitches I no longer take the aquaroll or wastemaster. I have purchased a fold down device from the company Colapz, which comes with a ball cock type device to enable us to connect to a water supply 'outside the van' and I understand they have a 45 litre fresh water container and a 45 litre grey water waste container in development....
David
P.S. The picture below shows our fold down water unit that enables us to connect to the water 'outside the van' on a serviced pitch. It takes about 8 litres of water and folds down for carriage. Also, our foldable watering can, pictured with other items so that it gives an idea of size. They are both really light.
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I have said many times that most caravans on the road are overweight especially when you go on a 2 week holiday. We are in the process of changing from a Barcelona to a coachman 675 and today i have been emptying our barcelona ready for taking it in , i have taken out so much stuff that just stays in the van and most of it we don't use we just carry it around plus when we go away we add food clothes shoes bedding and more so we must be well over the limit. I can say that we will be having a massive sort out when we reload the new van . I have been able to replate so this has given us an extra 100 kg taking the payload to 1900kg just inside my cars kerb weight.we have a 4 wheel mover and the battery is no lightweight, but i'm sure we will be ok with the upgrade and a clearout. There's only 2 of us and 2 dogs so we shouldn't. even have to think about being over . the average of 160 kg is an absolute joke and the industry needs to sort it out.
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We have a single axle, and our upgrade takes us to 210kg of user weight. With a mover, battery and wind out roof awning, that leaves us about 110kg. That's so easy to use up. I absolutely agree that manufacturers need to take user payload more seriously.
Since we've started to carry 'all outside stuff' in the car, I have found it much easier. When you park the car on the offside of the caravan, lifting the boot and taking out the water, waste and electric cable etc appears much more convenient. We are fortunate in having a large boot space in the Discovery.
I even leave out the caravan Jack these days on the basis that if I need a tyre changing, I am not going to be the one that does it. I ring Mayday and they come with their own equipment. The Jack seem quite heavy to me and as far as I am concerned, personally, is superfluous- I'm not going to be using it.
David
P..S. Last year we pitched next to a young family and I was absolutely amazed at the stuff that came out of their van - including a heavy BBQ, 4 bikes, awning and goodness knows what else. How they got off the drive at home, goodness knows..... 😀
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Doesnt stop the NCC talking to Coachman does it!
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We have a Coachman Pastiche 575 2016, again only the two of us.
No clothes or food is in the caravan, apart from Michelle's spice's, which the sum weight of is still nothing!
Usual habitational stuff stored neatly away and that's it.
What killed us is the mover, and as David says the additional "Service pitch" equipment. When I got it home I weighed everything going into the van, soon became apparent that I needed to up-plate the MTPLM, remove carpets and ditch the spare wheel and carrier.
Ever weighed bedding? Mattress topper ,4 pillows,duvet plus cover, fitted sheet and then a decorative throw, fair bit of weight there.
We recently had a look at changing the caravan, we did look at our current van in the VIP version, well you do, dont you?
What struck me was the MTPLM was 100kg more (ish), which in-turn must mean a higher rated axle,
I want this axle on the Pastiche variant, surely the increased payload would muster sales? Coachman can still downplate the thing as desired.
No brainer to me.
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Easy T enforcement officers use the NCC plate for prosecution's of overloading, not sure as to why you would mention bacon.
The sticker or legislation around it is from the UK Construction and Use regs, not all of which has been replaced by the EU.
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As for caravans being over weight, I think for single axle caravans it's a given, especially those with movers.
It's about time pressure was put onto the manufacturers to exploit Down-plating for the users benefit, as explained above, and as shown by BB and his Motorhome.
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take your van from the dealers straight to a weigh bridge with nothing in it, this will give you the exact weight you have left as your payload. then weigh everything and I mean everything you put back in the new van. don't know where about in Lancashire your from but if near preston/blackpool way there is a waste management depot at the end of the M55 and will cost £8.40 via a card payment.
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There are a handful of UK caravan manufacturers that aren’t members of the NCC and their caravans obviously don’t carry the NCC label. The same applies to caravans privately imported from the Continent, so the NCC label can’t be a requirement. The law doesn’t distinguish between caravans and other types of trailer. Obviously the NCC only concerns itself with caravans. Besides, the NCC label is not covered in any Construction and Use regulation and anyway it’s crazy to have two plates or labels on a caravan displaying different MTPLMS.
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it’s crazy to have two plates or labels on a caravan displaying different MTPLMS.
A manufacturers ploy to widen the appeal and particularly with those without grandfather rights or having passed a towing test. I don't know but wonder if thus trend started after the end of 'grandfather rights' in 1997.
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Our Lunar Clubman SB was four years old when Lunar up-plated it for us via a local dealer.
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I'm not getting into a pronged arguement, so one time only post.
The C&U regs does distinguish between braked and unbraked trailers.
The NCC isnt acting as a legal body, only as a body advising/holding the database on behalf of its members in regards to their members products. The label at the caravan door could have Fred Blogs written on it instead of NCC, the fact remains the lower MTPLM is imposed by the manufacturers as to how that product should be used, we the user must comply. The NCC name is neither here nor there in regards to legal compliance. It's the manufacturer who has imposed the restriction, and the manufacturer can lift it to the EU approval figure.
There is no difference between down plating a motorhome as to a caravan, it's not the DVLA who makes the decision but the manufacturer, you said as much yourself, the DVLA then hold the details of that individual vehicle for compliance purposes, same as the NCC.
Bailey Caravans themselves have confirmed this as well you know.
My advice is very simply phone the club if in doubt.
I wouldnt dream of suggesting removing the manufacturers plate just because Google isnt providing the answers.
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Swift caravans can have an upgraded weight anytime for a fee of approx £60:00.The fee is to cover the printing of the new plate and associated paperwork/ certificate.
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It's a puzzle as to why Coachman have the one year rule, hence my suggestion to write to the NCC to see if they can influence Coachman in any way.
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I suspect the trend started when caravans got increasingly heavier and the manufacturers were getting worried that heavier caravans would appeal to a smaller market, limiting it to owners of bigger cars. On top of that there was the 85% weight ratio recommendation in the UK to contend with. On the Continent there was never such a recommendation so manufacturers there were at liberty to offer much greater weight upgrades.
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That the Construction and Use regulations distinguish between braked and unbraked trailers is well known, but they don’t distinguish between caravans and other trailers. It also still leaves the absurdity that the caravan is displaying two different MTPLMS.
Besides, the NCC does not hold a database of technical information of all caravans. So long as there is no requirement to register a caravan, they can’t.
I repeat, if a vehicle is downplated, the statutory plate must reflect that, not only any label by the door which is not covered in any piece of legislation.
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I had my, then 18 month old, MH up-plated from 3300 to 3500 to give a bit more leeway on load. Given the number of 3.5T restriction signs I've encountered in the past month, there is much to commend running a MH at that weight.
When I had my four berth Abbey, I had a 230Kg payload margin but, with just the two of us, it was just adequate. Current caravan payloads are unworkable in the real world.
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"Given the number of 3.5T restriction signs I've encountered in the past month,......"
just one of the reasons I've decided to run at this weight, perfectly doable on a smaller, slimmer van....we like to swing into towns and villages without worrying about these restrictions.
others include being able to breeze past all those nasty HGVs mentioned in the other thread, lower tolls, no hassle at 70 etc., etc...
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You are absolutely correct, Robert. This is the way I see it too. However, there needs to be a reality check here. It is no good manufacturers producing light van's with a poor user payload in order to be able to tow it with a small vehicle. Not only is it impossible to put in all necessary desirable equipment in the caravan, because of the poor payload, but the cars themselves are too small to be able to put in all the equipment needed/ desired. We find it difficult enough t fit the stuff into a Discovery, and there are only two of us and the dog! I can't imagine how a family of 4 (or more) would manage in a smaller vehicle.
In my opinion, if you want to tow a caravan you need a big car to do it. Manufacturers and caravanners need to be aware of this. We shouldn't expect to 'put a quart in a pint pot....' to use an old phrase! Either that or vans need to be smaller (I.e. forget about fixed beds, showers and the like, and extend the living space with a larger awning.
David
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....actually, I was just about to editvmy post again when you replied JVB. I think at least one of the new Discovery range comes with a 'wrap around awning'. I'm sure this will be great for a younger family...... but for those of us who have got used to the fixed bed, and are even wondering about bothering with an awning these days (....kneeling to knock in pegs after knee replacements etc...
), the needs to be a 'heavier alternative' with the payload.... 😀😀👍David
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Have Bailey really cracked the payload issue?
Discovery D4-2, 2 berth, MTPLM 995kg, MRO 884 , Payload 111kgs
Discovery D4-3, 3 berth, MTPLM 1082kgs, MRO 946. Payload 136kgs
Discovery D4-4, 4 berth, MTPLM 1200kgs, MRO 1059, Payload 141 kgs.With realistically most wanting a battery and a mover, over 50 kgs is already taken.
Is anyone sensibly suggesting, the bedding, clothes, shoes, food, drink, ablution kit, cooking utensils, cutlery, crocks etc assuming all else is carried in the car is workable with 60 kgs?
If that was not enough one of their advertising photos shows the two berth with a dutch style bike and rack on the “A” frame, so another best part of 20 kgs gone there, and again a big locker with BBQ fuel picnic kit wellies etc.
I hope you are right that there is a payload up grade, a very significant one and one all the sales agents make potential virgin caravanners very very well aware of it and its need.
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These are figure s from a 10 year old van similar to new Discovery range!
Miro 865 Kg
Essential habitation equipment 73 kg
Personal effects payload 131kg
Optional equipment payload 31 kg
Total allowable payload 235 kg
Maximum technical permissible laden mass 1100 kg0 -
I towed my swift azzurra all over the country with a montego deisel estate ,self leveller suspension ,no problem .then i weighed it , oops way over for 3 years , still got van , tow with a disco throw it all in car
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My solution would be to take the oven out but I guess that wouldn’t suit everybody. I find it frustrating lugging such a heavy item around. Our microwave packed up just before we set off to France this year and, guess what, we never missed it. So thats a lot of weight for two items.
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The so-called weight upgrades are a load of eyewash really because the higher MTPLM is already shown ex-works on the statutory plate. Besides, the degree of upgrade that they claim to offer is usually minimal compared with true upgrades of the Continental manufacturers which involve fitting heavier duty axles that allow increases in the MTPLM of 100kg or 200kg or sometimes even more.
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