Lithium- probably the best decision I have made!
For those who are considering Lithium as an alternative to EHU fees. Well, I think we can all agree that this summer has been a washout so far with a decent day here and there- well, in Wales, that has been the case. It’s been cold too! Most of the time, it’s been leaden skies, overcast and dull. It has, in fact, been an excellent opportunity to test the Lithium Battery I purchased in the very early spring. Now, it has to be admitted that I now have 300w on the roof courtesy of a show offer by Coachman. However, throughout it all, the Lithium has performed so very well. We have, like others, had our heating on in June, been captive in our van through foul weather, making the television or a DVD very attractive to pass the hours as the rain beat on the roof!. Been able to use the toaster every day, a food blender, clean around with our powerful 240v vacuum etc and the usual lights at night! Charge our phones and toothbrushes etc etc. The Safefill has taken care of the fridge, the water, the heating etc with the battery supplying the much needed Alde pump. At no time has the Battery been below 87% and to be fair, most of the time not below 95% SoC. Even in very overcast conditions the panels were able to feed an amp or two into the Battery. During a very sunny interval between the clouds the other day I noticed 19.1 amps being fed into the Lithium!! It doesn’t take long at those levels to fill the battery completely and a Lithium can take that level of charge without a problem. 3 hrs of TV reduced it by 2%! Had that been during the day, I wouldn’t have noticed any drop whatsoever- the Panels would have fed more in than I was taking out. There is no doubt that a Lithium Battery has moved the bar higher. All in all, a very worthwhile experience. (Please- I am not looking for a fight with EHUers! I just want to post my findings for those that are interested!!)
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It’s great that it works for you, Merve, but isn’t it the case that lithium batteries cost several hundred £s? That’s a factor which could tip the balance for many people. 🤔
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Really? Phew!
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Yes, they are more expensive, that cannot be denied. Not thousandS as DD would have you believe but 1 thousand and prices will drop. but, as I have tried to explain in the past, research into them will show you that in the long run a Lithium is cheaper than having to buy LA batteries all the time. For instance, had I wanted to do this with 2 LA batteries as I did when I started out in 2013, I would now be needing my third set of LA 110amp batteries. At £150 each or thereabouts, you can see how it works out. If, and it is an If, the Lithium carries on giving me the power it has been giving for the next 10 years, (expected life 20-25 yrs) then I’ll be well pleased and not a little wealthier!🤣🤣. The fact is that it allows me to stay in fabulous non EHU sites and have the same facilities as I would if I had EHU ( or very nearly) Staying on EHU site would be approximately £10 a night more. I am just coming to the end of a 42 day stay. As far as I’m concerned, that’s nearly half of it paid for. If, as I say, the companies that produce these batteries are to be believed and all the independent testers too, then I will be very happy I made the decision. These things hold so much power that it makes me wonder what a deep cycle is as far as LB’s are concerned. It’s definitely working for me Tinny. If in three years or so, it all goes pear shaped, I’ll be the first one to hold my hands up and say ‘don’t bother with Lithium folks’
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Cheers, Merve. It does help to make a decision when all the facts are known.
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Tunnel vision? Obsessing about the price of something that will save you money in the long run??? Sorry, but that, I don’t understand. For me, worth every penny. I am already well on my way to recouping the cost in saved fees. No reliance on EHUs but with the convenience of same. Speculate to accumulate!! Apparently, according to you , you are well ahead of me in the technology game- We still await details of your amazing power source DD- c’mon, don’t keep it to yourself! - Is it warp core technology?? 🤣🤣
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I’ve seen lithium battery’s advertised for under £1k so prices definitely coming down, of course there will always be company’s that are reluctant to narrow their margins. If in a couple of years I need a new battery then I will consider buying lithium.
As long as your happy with your purchase Merve and it works for you it really doesn’t matter what your regular detractors think
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I would like to know where you find these sub £10 per night wonderful non EHU sites. How about 10 factual examples.
Here are 10 from the Off-Grid CL spreadsheet and not left the A's yet!
https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/certificated-locations/scotland/highlands/nairn/allanaha-farm/https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/certificated-locations/england/kent/margate/acol-farm/
https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/certificated-locations/england/suffolk/saxmundham/3-maples-park/
https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/certificated-locations/england/cornwall/penzance/2-poniou-lane/
https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/certificated-locations/england/cornwall/bude/atlantic-view-farm/
https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/certificated-locations/england/west-yorkshire/keighley/ashgrove-farm/
https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/certificated-locations/england/kent/sittingbourne/ashdown-cottage/
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DD, if you had read my OP you would have seen that I addressed my comments to interested parties. But, as you insist on having a dig at me every time I try to post an innocent and honest blog, which says more about you than me, £4,000?? Are you having a laugh? No wonder you haven’t got ‘your ideal set up’ That would be ludicrous. I can assure you that I spent less than £1500 all in. It’s sometimes down to how you talk to people as to what they will do for you! Try it sometime. As for giving you my retreats which Johnny has proved exist, there are some that I would share and some I definitely wouldn’t . If you are interested in sub £10 sites you only have to look in the book like I do and not expect everyone else to do the work for you. If you wish to keep trashing my blogs, get on with it. It makes no difference to me. I will keep people informed of my activities and my progress. Some people are interested in what I am doing believe it or not. At least I have walked the walk and talked the talk and all you have done is snipe from the sidelines- somethings never change!
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Lithium is the way forward. They will become mainstream in vehicles and will get cheaper.
I see the main advantage as the weight saving, should save 15kg per 100ah battery and that's 15kg more payload.
Solar panels are already available printed to substrate so how long before we don't need a hookup?
Solar caravan body panels, underslung battery slabs underfloor (or indeed in the floor substrate) with enough power to supply all needs.
Available now, will get cheaper.
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As with all technology early adopters pay a premium for entry, as volumes increase price falls and performance generally increases.
Each of us considering a similar purchase has to justify it to ourselves and we all have differing thresholds of acceptance, usually, it usually circles around depth of pocket and outright need for that particular step in technology.
A year or so ago I had considered buying kit parts to build a lithium battery as most are constructed of individual cells.I abandoned this on the risk/cost basis an decided to wait to the technology to mature. I suspect that the deep cycle capabilities of lithium will obviate the need for large Ampere Hourages required for lead acid thereby reducing the weight and cost. I can currently survive off grid with 100w panel and 115 Ah lead acid set up . My main objective in a change to lithium would be weight saving.
So be thankful to the early adopters, we will probably all get there eventually!
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This couple have gone a lot further Merve, a bit extreme but shows what can be done.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-48621886
peedee
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We have always changed out the battery charger in every new to us outfit that we have owned with a unit manufactured by Sterling Power Products - on the latest one we installed it has a regime for charging LiFePO4 batteries - now i know what it means.
John
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I have a lithium battery as well. On its second year now without any problems even when using the motor mover. Mine cost less than £1000 new but it has other savings as well considering it weighs a lot lot less than a conventional leisure battery and the dimensions are smaller also. I can lift this one and take it into the garage easily which is a major benefit to me over the standard batteries.
It isn't always about just being one above anyone else. Its a strength issue with me. I can't carry the same weight as I used to (Knee replacements)
I'm with you on this one Merve Worth every penny as far as im concerned
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As a prospective future adopter, I've been digging and have formed the following thoughts and opinions.
A consideration is how you use your battery, most on gridders using hook ups probably don't cycle their battery more than 20% which means in reality a 100 ah lead acid battery is overkill and a similar capacity lithium even more so. So a 60 ah lead acid or a 45ah lithium would do. At this cycle rate lead acid will last 1000's of cycles and lithium probably much more.
For off gridders the situation is slightly different. Cycling a lead acid at 80% capacity can reduce lead acid battery life to less than 1000 cycles maybe even 500 especially in climates over 25C . Also the higher the discharge rate with lead acid the lower the available capacity so a 100ah battery may only deliver 50ah at a high current eg with an inverter running, hence the need for more batteries. In this situation lithium makes a lot of sense as at even higher current rates over 80 plus% of capacity can be had plus they can deep cycle with much less impact on life and are less susceptible to high temperature effects. So in reality you don't need to replace like for like Ah capacity when changing from lead acid to lithium, I reckon a 70 Ah lithium would do a much better job than a 100ah lead acid in off grid situations. This makes the cost less and the weight saving more attractive, something to consider when deciding to change or not. Or maybe it would make sense to use weight saving to upgrade solar to give faster charging depending on priorities.
Personally I will hang on a bit until more is known about real lifetimes of lithium in user applications, about when my current lead acid gives up I suspect!
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A good considered posting IMO, "viatorem"; the main gainers are without doubt going to be the off EHU campers.
Points I would add:-
There can be complications with sorting suitable charging, from mains, from towcar and from solar if the correct charging electronics are not already integrated into the Lithium battery's BMS itself. All kit now readily available but adding cost and probably making already owned kit redundant.
I also feel that the usable capacity, if the claimed longevity is to be yielded needs to both limit the maximum charge adopted and limit the depth of discharge. So you ought use a figure quite a bit short of the label value.
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It would be interesting to do a cost comparison. I know Lithium may provide excellent service in less than ideal circumstances for the humble lead alternative but i'm not convinced of the considerable extra costs involved. I also acknowledge that for some environments the lithium route is also advantageous. However, In 40 years+ I've never had a battery fail and with only just a few instances of compromise have we ever really missed a single household appliance or entertainment device. Yes, I've exchanged like for like batteries on exchanging vehicles at no additional visible cost so possibly I've been lucky.
We have really enjoyed adopting that old fashioned 'caravanning' mentality of finding alternative solutions to living in our van probably as much as others enjoy providing that all signing, all dancing carry on as at home approach to our commonly held leisure activity.
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For a constructive price comparison, it would be best first to state the requirements one asks of a 12 volt system.
If for example you want it to power any 240 VAC kit you might use, say a microwave, a toaster or domestic vacuum cleaner and so support a 2kW inverter. Here the DC current drain will be so high that with any realistic weight of LA batteries you might carry they will be so abused that they will need replacing in very quick order. So, given the 20/25 year Lithium life claims one could argue you would be buying a lot of LA batteries over that period and structure a case.
However, many in my circle of off EHU friends find we get along quite adequately with lower aspirations, forging an electric toaster, the microwave etc, the very high drain items. We have a couple or three of hours of TV in the evening, recharge any USB devices, use the LED lighting, power the heater from our generally single battery, and get 6 to 8 years of decent charge retention if we buy carefully and treat them kindly. Plus, our van's come configured to charge LA batteries when on a home EHU, when towed and more recently from solar.
Good as Lithium technology is, I would suggest for the second type of user I described, at the current pricing of it and its associated kit, it presently has no cost advantage, very much the opposite.
Hopefully things will change, but unless my pattern of usage radically alters, it is quality LA for me currently on a cost basis. The techno anorak in me would love to go Lithium, but I could only do so if kidding myself and my accountant it was not actually too expensive.
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Merve, I spoke to Road pro and asked them to price the parts that I would need for a lithium set up. The battery, charger, charge controller and inverter came out at £3,700. That was without the solar panel and fitting.
I thought this to be a bit on the pricy side.. You mention it cost you £1500. I would happily pay that. Could you let me have a breakdown of what you have and what each part cost.please. I am very keen on the idea but there are limits. Thanks in advance.
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Mitsi, I do apologise for not checking this thread and replying. Please contact me at ynotkickaroonow@hotmail.com and I will give you the details gladly. Please indicate on the thread that it is you that has sent me the email.
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In 5 years time you may well have 200+ kwh of batteries sitting in your car next to your van in which case the whole game will change - you probably won't even need a battery in the van and solar panels will be a total waste of time.
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Merve, can you not detail the costings of your whole lithium conversion for all of us to see, to substantiate your earlier claim "I can assure you that I spent less than £1500 all in."?
From your other postings of the specific kit you have, I simply can't get near that price, even with normally possible discount levels.
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