Climate Change-The Truth
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I always remember my old mechanics professor saying
never trust scientists who work in R&D, or paid for by a company, their 'results' are to make money not necessarily get to the answers
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Your mechanics professor was wrong to say that Corners, maybe he was miffed that he couldn't extend his research. How do you think you are posting on here, it took years of research and development to produce the enhanced micro systems we have now. But what's that got to do with the OP?
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well I don't agree, whoever pays the piper calls the tune? And no he was a world leader in his field I remember.- fluids.
And you have proved my point, this internet and all the systems that were developed for one thing in mind, was it (as you appear to think perhaps) for the benefit of mankind? or to make money in selling computers, making money from global communications... the list goes on.
Have you been promoted to moderate now? Even so, I didn't bring in the idea that these scientists on this programme were giving a fully balanced view, I am merely giving another view that their theories may not be correct, perhaps they are, but even they (if they are true scientists ) wouldn't say that.
Just because they are on the BBC (were they paid btw by the BBC?, picked by David Attenborough personally?) does not automatically make them correct. yes they may be but keep an open mind Brue.
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I thought the programme made some interesting points, and made them well e.g. the trend in rising sea temperature, rising sea levels, global deforestation, increase in CO2 levels etc. The real problem is how to deal with it in order to turn these trends.
We all ( the world ) needs to reduce our reliance on fossil fuels, so for example :
First of all remove your gas boilers and log burners, then :
Hands up who wants to be first to sell their 4x4 and caravan ?
Hands up who wants to be first to sell their Motor-home ?
Who wants to be first to vow never to fly again ?
Who is going to be first to just pop out and buy a Tesla ?
etc etc
or we could, as someone said, make out it's just all hype and fake news....
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I'm sure scientific and economic research is about development, a continuous process of thought, measurement, calculation, failure and success. Without the ability to input results anywhere ie on computers the speed of communications and outcomes would be back to where it was many years ago. However with climate change groups of people with differing skills have got together to pool their information and research, whether they are correct or not the results are leading to more informed ways of thinking on the subject.
And no Corners I have not been promoted to moderate and I prefer posts that have a bit of self moderation so that fierce arguments are kept to a minimum and CT remains a friendly place.
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It happened before ?
Yes, the programme showed changes since the beginning of industrialisation well over 100 years ago.
What stopped it then ?
Nothing, it continues to get worse.
Who said it was all hype and fake news?
The president of the United States of America.
The programme is still available on BBCiplayer for those who perhaps missed it.
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I'm not making further comments about CT Corners, you brought that up and I responded as best I could.
My first thoughts when I saw this thread were about what individuals might be doing to improve things, if they think they needed to or if they felt persuaded to by the information which is out there. Or not.
But the reality is that some things are going to be imposed on us because I guess we can't let go of the things that pollute. So we'll see higher taxes, more restrictions on fuel and various inducements to wean us off our present situation.
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It happened before ?
Yes, the programme showed changes since the beginning of industrialisation well over 100 years ago.
you're talking too narrow a timescale, heating and cooling cycle have been happening for many thousands of years, it could be argued that 100 years is not really a long enough time frame to ascertain anything?
The Earth's climate has changed throughout history. Just in the last 650,000 years there have been seven cycles of glacial advance and retreat.
The Earth’s climate does go through natural cycles of warming and cooling
During the rise of mammals, Earth's temperatures spiked in a scary way that the planet may experience again soon.
So yes it has happened before, if we knew what stopped it then we could use that now? what is wrong with that?
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Ok, so if you think about what individuals might be doing, can I ask what you have done or plan to do, in an extremely polite way? Or are you saying you want to leave it to governments? That's fine by me, and I'll pay but what about those that can't?
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Indeed corners, I understand that the earths climate has been through previous changes over millenia. But, carbon dioxide levels continue to increase, granted over the relatively short time scale of just over 100 years, and that just happens to be the same period of time when the burning of fossil fuels, ( first coal, then oil and gas ) has increased rapidly, and the same period of time where global deforestation has increased and removal of the very trees which consume the carbon dioxide has made global CO2 levels worse.
I'm no eco-warrior, nor am I a betting man, but for me the argument makes sense.
I can foresee a time, perhaps not in my lifetime, but maybe our children's lifetime, motoring as we know it disappearing and perhaps become, as it was in it's early years, an indulgence for the very rich, perhaps aviation too.
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yes I think you could be right if energy sources remain as at present.
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I try to tread lightly on this planet,CS.For fifty odd years the boat was moved by wind, so negligible carbon if we ignore construction impact and I didn't change every few years like some car and caravan owners.
Short of becoming a semi-vegetarian hunter gatherer, we are bound to have some impact but I feel that personally I should, as far as possible, be frugal with the planet's resources.
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I should, as far as possible, be frugal with the planet's resources.
the boat was indeed moved by wind, btw did you use it to visit your apartment in Spain or fly?
I think the highlighted words says its all? where is that limit? You set it at using a MH. Is that enough for the planet or, (and with all due respect and a serious question), your 'green' conscience?
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sorry just adding you gave an honest answer CY, and that 'limit' applies to us all not just you.
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We could always add awning heaters to the mix if we want to remain a bit more "on caravanning theme".
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Despite the protestation, despite the claims that the world has been here before, despite the fact that we really have destroyed huge Eco systems and polluted the world though our actions those efforts to redress the imbalance caused by human activity continue at pace now. These arguments of previous cycles live in the past, a past that was in denial, a past that took and gave little. I'm all for governments both national, and global taking the lead with the emission controls, development of recycling systems and those industrial innovations like we see in the motor industry. Commerce and industry, taxes and laws are all being influenced by this issue and these changes will not stop in there progress towards a better outcome.
Could I do more, possibly but who knows if those efforts we witness and are soon to witness aren't enough the action will be out of the hands of us individuals completely. Best to try to solve the man made influences now 'as best and as reasonably' as we can. This answer will not be enough for some but I'll take my current lead from those scientists and governments who are acknowledging the issues.
As mentioned before, transport and the motor industry is changing at a pace but so are all aspects of our lives. Like it or not these changes will continue and even our much loved caravanning pastime is changing. Now I know why pods, yurts, airstreams and wigwams and electric vehicle charging points are all springing up in traditional touring areas.
Change, its happening despite the protestations.
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I can remember, nearly thirty years ago now, standing up at a meeting and reading out "the facts about diesel" ie that we should all use it. So although things are changing we are dependent on research getting it right and that is the constant theme to all this.
I just looked up, as a reminder, what epoch we are in, the Holocene, it's worth reading about just from a point of view of climate change, loss of species, development of skills etc. We're a strange lot, we could have stopped with flint tools but we didn't.
I'll now confess I didn't watch David A and his programme as much of this information is out there and as said by others you can try to do your bit and governments will have to change their policies too.
One small thing locally, all our non recyclable household waste will soon be going to an energy plant producing electricity. If that is repeated everywhere that's some sort of lurch towards renewables.
Has anyone managed to stop using plastic bags? I haven't.
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Brue, can I suggest you watch it, it's on inplayer, clearly some will not bother either because they do or don't want to agree and some will want to deliberately avoid it and not consider the facts. However in the eyes of many it was based on current knowledge and the very latest data. I learnt a lot from it and it modified my stance. A few mind want nothing to do with it and won't watch for that very reason but it's worth watching nevetheless if only to discard the content or ignore what they see in my opinion. At least it will contribute to ones understanding of both sides of the argument.
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No brue, we haven’t either, but those we have get used until they drop to pieces, and tend to be the more robust bag for life types. I actually got chatting to a chap in our Tesco yesterday, usual queue at the one working scale in the fruit/veg aisle. He was weighing bananas in a small plastic bag, so I asked him (friendly) why? Turns out it was just habit, something to stick his label on. So I demonstrated that labels stuck just as well to a banana skin! Really winds me up seeing things like bananas in plastic bags......
On a sadder note, we took dog for a walk in one of our local parks yesterday evening. Nice warm evening, dozens of hot hatches parked up in little car park. Local youth enjoying a night out, litter, broken bottles, McDonalds wrappers strewn everywhere, disposable barbecues still glowing on grass, beer cans being hurled around. Didn’t dare say a word, but our body language probably spoke for itself. It’s a regular thing as well, not just a one off. More worrying to me was they were breeding age. These weren’t poor kids either, not looking at some of cars and clothes they were wearing. For every Greta there are a few thousand who desperately need a lifestyle mindset change. If they were dogs, they would be considered poor breeding stock and neutered. Not PC I know, but so angers me.😡
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Why is everyone on here trying to force their view on everyone else, if you believe that climate change is man made then alter your way of life to improve things if you don't then carry on as normal simple. It's like brexit just because you hold a strong view one way or another does not mean the opposing view is wrong and they should all go to hell in a handcart and it's doom and gloom.
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Has anyone managed to stop using plastic bags? I haven't.
Not entirely although I reckon we have been pretty good at avoiding them for the last ten years. When Waitrose started their self scanning Check Check scheme, probably over ten years ago now. Those that signed up to self scan were given a set of hessian type bags, some of which we are still using today. So I suppose we have at least not used 3000 plastic bags for our shopping over that time and probably more. When we shop elsewhere for the likes of food we always take a bag with us. Where I am not so good and tend to pay 5p for a bag is when I buy clothes, which is not that often anyway. I noticed on Thursday that Waitrose now no longer offer plastic bags at the till points but direct you to their range of hessian bags.
David
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I don’t think anyone is trying to force their views on anyone else. Some contributors are merely chatting about the things they have done that may lessen the impact of humanity on this planet.
There are two main reasons for climate change, one wholly cyclical, the other, and of far greater concern, is the impact that Man is having in one way or another on our World in general. Little efforts and changes can add up to larger changes, and that’s not to be ignored. 😀
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I haven’t seen anyone forcing their view on others, CG. It’s a discussion and people are stating their opinions. We are free to agree of disagree with them - or to ignore the thread entirely.
Edit. Whoops, crossed with you, TDA.
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I don't think anyone is forcing people to change their mind but some are suggesting that an open mind and an openness to modify old beliefs is healthy. Discussion is good!
As an aside taken from a caravan magazine.
'This summer, record numbers of Electric Vehicle (EV) and Plug-in Hybrid (PHEVs) drivers will be out and about on the nation’s roads.
Demand for EVs is at an all-time high in the UK, with year-on-year sales of EVs/PHEVs having increased by more than 27%, building further on an already bumper year previously.
With leading car manufacturers around the world having introducing new EV and PHEV models, the current monumental increase in EV sales is set to continue at an increasingly rapid rate.
The Government is investing heavily into the industry too – with nearly one billion pounds being directed into promoting the growth and support of EV uptake in this country.
Martin Georgeson, Sales Director of Rolec Services, the award-winning company widely recognised as one of Europe’s leading designers, manufacturers and suppliers of EV charging points and accessories, commented: “As a company, we have been actively involved in the EV industry for over 8 years and are well placed to meet the increasing demand.
“Increasing numbers of caravan parks across the UK are installing Rolec EV charging points as an added feature for their visitors and staff to use to keep pace with the trends of modern day motoring. We are aware of a number of disgruntled visitors to other leisure parks around the country who have been airing their disappointment at the lack of EV charging points on EV internet forums, highlighting the fact that demand is out there.”This is a good example how a modification of belief has and is acting as a change agent.
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Good to know EV charging network is growing.
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This is one of the interesting things to me (just come inside, it's too hot out there today
) is what we're doing with plastic and where it goes. I take plastic bags with me plus a fabric bag if I'm doing a food shop. Inevitably someone at home says "is there a bag spare for this, that or the other" and I end up buying another one.I'm giving myself a pep talk here...I will try to take fabric bags,the sort that fold away to nearly nothing. I hate the thought that oceans and rivers are filling up with plastic and we're all ingesting it via the food chain.
I suppose if things get really bad we can all be recycled due to our plastic content?
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We have all sorts of bags, OH has his little TDeF musette bag he carries around, I have a string bag in my rucksack, and something folded in my handbag, and various bags in each car. But there’s always that oh dear moment when you realise you need another one. Supermarkets bug me, everything is either in plastic or double wrapped. I think one of them is going to trial single veg items and do away with wrapping things that don’t need it. We are only two months into having plastic recycling pickups by our Council, but it composes by far the most rubbish we collect. We had to collect it and drive to dump it site up to March of this year.
I would happily swop either paper collection or general rubbish for another garden bin. Even composting like we do, we still have too much to compost, and some things you just don’t want in compost!
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I don't buy plastic bags anymore but we always buy the large bags for life things at 50p a go. However the majority of the time we forget to take them it when shopping and then buy another few. So both cars have one with all the ones we have bought in them. There is also one full bag in the kitchen and one full one the garage!
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