New Bailey 75-2 Autograph
Hi,
We are thinking of making the switch from caravan to motorhome, we really like the feel and layout of the Bailey 75-2, my concern and this may seem stupid but has anyone found the low level body an issue with our not so smooth and speed humped roads with the underside catching, any other advice on the m/h would appreciated. Thanks.
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I had the previous Approach model (same layout and size) on an Al-Ko chassis and didn't really have the problem you describe in the six years of ownership. I did once scrape the spare wheel carrier when turning sharp left and uphill on the way to a site in Austria. On the early models the step well as lower than it is now and I did knock that against a high kerb. However on the newer Autograph models and the Alliance model I now have, (66-2) the step is level with the bodywork so that shouldn't be an issue although its a slightly higher step up. The only issue I see with the new Autographs is that they don't have a very high load margin. I know many people have a weight upgrade but that is driving licence dependent. Although not as luxurious as the Autograph range the new Alliance models have a far higher payload. The Alliance 76-2 might be worth a look?
David
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If you use 'Facebook' you might want to think about joining the 'Bailey Motorhome Owners group' you can chat to owners of that model of vehicle. Its a very friendly group with lots of help and advice.
We had the original Bailey 625 SE model, we never had any issues with catching the rear end or the skirts but I believe some of the longer models have experienced issues with sleeping policemen and in France some of the ramps going into fuel stations etc.
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ok, this is going to seem very negative but I wish to highlight some of the issues that a caravanner might not be looking for..
firstly, and most importantly (IMV) weight....and lack of payload...
running a 7m MH at 3.5t can be 'tricky', running a 7.5m MH at 3.5t is (IMV) unworkable....here's why....
the van weighs 3185kg in 'running order'.....giving a (apparent) payload of 315kg...sounds a lot comapred to the 150 or so in a caravan doesn't it?.
however, these days, to make the payload appear larger than it is, most manufacturers don't include any fresh water in the tank.....I can't find the definitive Bailey position but I'll wager its like the majority of others...
in addition, there is no allowance for your OH....a nominal 75kg in these calculations....
so, fill,ypur tank ready to go, add the good wife and .....Oh....you've now only got 140kg left, suddenly less than in some caravans...
now remember, you have no towcar to carry all the heavy awkward stuff, it all has to go in the same vehicle....
at this point the dealer will tell you that he can upplate the van to 3650kg (or even 3850kg) and your payload worries will miraculously disappear....not so...
the van sits on a 'light' chassis with finite axle limits, the rear being 2000kg, always vulnerable on longish vans with substantial rear overhangs as in this Bailey model...
doing a 'paper' upgrade to the van doesn't change the limit of that rear axle, so the same weight issues remain.
this van should be built on the heavy 4250kg chassis but this would reduce appeal to Bailey's core customer....older folk who may not have the higher license groups...
and now we come to storage..
even if the van had decent carrying capacity, this van has no exterior access to either front seating area and only a letter box sized flap to access the underbed storage...large items (sometimes wet or muddy) will have to carried through the nice new van...
not only is this a long van (over 7.5m) it's also the widest of the major players at 2.5m......many others are 2.35, some 2.27, ours is 2.12m.
IMV, you might find this spacious inside (again, Bailey appealing to those like you who are coming from a caravan) but it may well be a right pain on the road or in car parks...
as I said at the top of this post, you may see this as negative stuff, but it's blooming expensive negative stuff if the van doesn't work for you..
happy to help with any questions but magazine reviews won't tell you any of the points I've made, preferring to focus on the selling points of spacious interior and and the fact it's the same as their caravans....
mhing is definitely not the same as caravanning, the single vehicle alone introduces restrictions (space and weight) and this needs to be fully understood before signing the cheque...
MH is terrific fun, but the constraints have to be understood, and then the myriad advantages can come flooding through...
good luck
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Not that I'm thinking of buying one, BB, but how would such a vehicle go for towing a box trailer for some of the load - especially the wet muddy large stuff? Would the noseweight kill it? Or the rear overhang lift a trailer off the ground on a hump bridge?
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I think Tammygirl's suggestion of joining the Bailey Motorhome Owners Group of Facebook is a good good one. There are now thousands of happy owners of Bailey Motorhomes who take their vans all over Europe and the UK. Some use sites some don't. It is also a good resource for technical information. We changed to a motorhome six years ago having caravanned for over 30 years. You will appreciate the ease of setting off and and setting up on site.
David
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...and then upgrade it...
the point is that the salesman will be the last person to raise the lack of payload issue....it's easy to buy a shiny new van for its upholstery colour (apparently)...
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I agree, owners forums can be useful, and yes we saw quite a few baileys in France and Spain on this trip, but none of the above changes the fact that this particular model is very short on payload and (as with other similarly proportioned vans on the light chassis) very vulnerable to going over the rear axle weight limit...
if I were looking at a van like this, I'd fill it with water, sit the OH in the passenger seat and drive it to the nearest weighbridge and get an actual picture of the spare capacity on the rear axle...at least I would know the extent (or not) of the problem...
140kg total spare capacity (of which perhaps only 60 or less is free on the rear) is a tiny amount for food, bedding, clothes, pots, pans, shoes, bikes, books, electrical kit, iPads phones etc, etc...
with the main storage being behind the rear axle, the fulcrum effect means that each kilo placed under the rear bed applies more than this to the axle, so the capacity might only be 40kg or so....
yes, conjecture on my part, but based on experience and a knowledge of how much kit we can carry and what it weighs...
id weigh the van....if the salesman won't do it, I'd find another one who will...
i had our current van weighed by our dealer as a condition of sale as I wanted to be fully confident we could run it in race trim within 3.5t limit.
my van is only 6.4m X 2.12m so considerably smaller than the Bailey and, being an A class is less rear axle biased, but we run at 3400kg incl water, kit, bikes etc and wine allowance....so, ok but close enough to continue to be careful...
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my van is only 6.4m X 2.12m so considerably smaller than the Bailey and, being an A class is less rear axle biased, but we run at 3400kg incl water, kit, bikes etc and wine allowance....so, ok but close enough to continue to be careful...
Surely a schoolboy error BB not using that extra 100kg for more wine allowance??
I totally agree with the other comments made especially regarding the way you use a MH compared the a caravan. As BB says Bailey do well with people moving from caravan to MH because the layout and feel is that of a caravan so it is easy but to build them with no payload is shocking (not only Bailey).
We bought a new van yesterday, it was on a 4,250 chassis but we opted to uprate to 4,500 to make sure we do not go over as even with a big payload it is easy to do once you fill the tanks, put bikes in garage plus all the other stuff you carry and it became part of the negotiation to get this done before handover so it is easier to register it at the higher load rather than change later. The sales person was even suggesting it to us. We currently have 3,850 and although we are within the limit with about 100kg to spare the rear axle is just about at 100% so with only 3,500 capacity it would be impossible IMHO.
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hi Michael, now you've got the juices flowing, what have you spent your wine money on....?
didnt think you'd had the Knaus for that long?...another one, perhaps?
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lovely van, just saw it on the Pullingers website....looks great, enjoy
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Hi PJMEG, BoleroBoy has given you a lot of food for thought. To answer your initial question about ground clearance. We have a 2017 75-4 and have just completed 10k miles. Yes the low clearance is something to be considered. I have heard slight grounding noises a couple of times, but think this is more the middle and rear mud flaps rubbing, or my spare wheel carrier which is slung at the rear underneath.
Only damage I’ve had is the waste pipe which is low slung. I’ve knocked it off twice, once on the previous 745, when I lost the tap, and then driver error getting on ramps on this model, so I’ve adapted it to raise the whole pipe work out of the way. It is on a flexible hose now and much more convenient.
I do try and plan ahead looking at the roads to avoid humpback bridges, but we can get into Chatsworth which has a hump bridge at the arrival point.
Turning to BB’s points. You can download the manuals for the 75-2 to get all the weights they include on their payload calculations. From memory, A 70 kg driver, 20 litres of fresh water, no waste and 80% fuel.
The new Baileys come with a fix and go tyre repair kit. If you pay for a spare and the Alko wheel carrier you are adding a lot of weight eating into your payload. We have a second leisure battery as well as a spare and fully loaded with me and the wife, food (we always take too much!) etc with two bikes on the rear our 75-4 came in at around 3800kg. I was glad I asked the dealer to upgrade the weighting’s which they did as part of the package.
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First things first .. Check out the Dealer. See what people are saying about them. They never change their spots and once they have your cash some would not even give you the time of day. We have had problems with a couple of Dealers both local so bought one on recommendation from Dealer 200 miles away. The level of service over the three years has been exceptional. Nothing is to much trouble and they have even sorted a problem out after the 2 year warranty expired.
As for payload it's a very important factor. You will be surprised how much goes in and it all adds to the weight. Build quality which IMPO is sadly lacking in Uk built Motorhomes should always be considered. No point in buying something with all the bells and whistles if it falls apart as you drive down the road. I used to carry a toolkit with our NEW Swift to screw bits and pieces back on and do repairs along the way. You certainly cannot keep taking them back for the niggles as the Motorhome spends more time at the Dealers than on the road.
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...A, yes the driver will be included (usually 75kg) and if the manual says 20kg then my calculations are just 20kg out....not enough to make any difference IMV....and if the fuel tank is full or there's any waste in the tank this will negate that....
do you know each axle actual weight?
you (dealer) may have upgraded the van to 3850kg but it's still on the light chassis, isnt it?
if so, this means the rear axle is still limited to 2000kg and the front 1850kg....hence the 'ability' to upplate to gain payload....but it's only usable if the extra weight can be distributed appropriately.
with the rear weight bias of this type of van, I reckon the rear axle is in serious trouble...
2000kg (the rear max) expressed as a percentage of the all up weight of your van (3800kg) is just under 52%.
IMHO, its nigh on impossible for this van to be split 48/52 weight wise, especially as you have a rear bike carrier and bikes.
my own van (A class, shorter rear overhang) has a less rear bias but is still 46/54.
i would make sure I know the rear axle loading as overloading this is the same offense as overloading the van, which the upplate has mitigated against.
ill gladly eat my 'words' (and start believing in fairies) if you tell me the rear axle is legal
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We like the look of some of the Bailey models but none of them are provided with auto transmission. I cannot understand the logic of that. If my memory is accurate, Rolls Royce and Bentley stopped offering cars with a manual transmission in 1948. My wife and I gave up on manual transmission cars years ago when less costly auto boxes became the norm. Come on Bailey - wake up!
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For some reason Bailey use the Peugeot chassis v the other 90% of mainstream manufacturers who use Fiat and the rest that us Merc or Iveco (may be others) I do not understand this except not having Auto saves about 17kg of weight on an already overloaded van?
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AS offer the auto Fiat as an alternative base vehicle on their Peugeot models. There must be a reason Bailey don’t do the same.
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Whilst I agree with you about automatic gearboxes, my last four cars have been auto's there must be a reason why Bailey only use Peugeot cabs. The only thing I can think of is cost. Anyone who has looked at Bailey motorhomes will have realised that Bailey don't really offer any optional extras apart from bedding. So it seems they want to keep the production line focused on producing standard motorhomes. (may also apply to caravans?) If you want options you either have to have your dealer fit them or upgrade the model you buy. Perhaps the reason for this is this keep things as simple as possible and as such keep prices down? Surely also Elddis only use Peugeot cabs except for their new van conversions?
David
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ok, I'll believe you........and, as promised, I've just seen a fairy at the bottom of our garden...
it does highlight how 'tricky' it can be to run a 7-7.5m van comfortably at 3.5t.
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I had a panel van with underslung water tank and the bolts protruding down from the brackets didn't stay straight for very long, personally I much prefer something with a good road clearance. Its not relaxing to wonder to be wary of every speed bump and they do like them on the continent.
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We own a 75-2 and can give some balance to the debate perhaps, if anyone peruses this thread.
Firstly we love the space and layout. We searched for a long time to find the right Motorhome to change too.
We wanted a dedicated bed, lounge area with both sofa style seats facing each other, separate shower area, cab air con, 6 gears, large fridge and space for our dog. The kitchen space is ideal. We have never owned a caravan so that had no influence in our decision process. The Autograph is well specified for our wants and needs.
On the issue of size, the 2.5m width is not an issue, we live on a B road and it’s fine. We take the wider route but that’s really made little difference from our previous MH. We have not had grounding issues. Even where we descended a slope into a site with a plastic speed hump.
Weight - we didn’t want or need more than 3.5T. Max loading. After loading everything and going to the local public weigh bridge we hit 3.5 T on the nose. Full fuel and water tank. Dropped the water tank to 20% which is plenty and reduced some of the stuff that we all pile in but don’t really need. Took the cycle rack off, not needed.The ample cupboard space means no more cramming things in. As there are only two seat belts this is very much a couples motorhome. So any comments about children is irrelevant for a 2 seater. Although the 4 seat belt plus units would need further consideration.
One thing we particularly wanted is the all year round capability which we have used.We tend to walk a lot when we are pitched up or pre Covid, and used buses if we needed to.
We also like the insurance and MOT class it’s perfect for us and our dog.We aren’t off to a the South of France anytime soon so we don’t need the heavier capacity style MH.
No regrets and our advise is really think through what you will use your Motorhome for. Then you’ll make a choice that suits you.
Happy Motor- Homing1
